Ask An Ex-Catholic/Buddhist/Ninja/Biblical Scholar!
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04-02-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
I have my own personal reasons for such a hatred for the church. I wont go into it on this site. When i was child I was abused and that's all i will say. You can love that unholy church all you want. It is a farce at best. We could go into the Spanish killing Native people in the name of GOD through the Holy Catholic church. All under the popes wishes. They had to get that gold you know. Have you heard the name Cortez? He killed a whole native people. All in the name of the Catholic Church. Their is just one example and if I had time i could go back to the very start. The original cannons were picked by a corrupt counsel at Nicaea and who was the final judges. They have found that if it was not what the church was preaching it was thrown out. They burned and destroyed books. Just like the archaeology and the Inca tablets that the church burned because it was of the devil. I F**king hate that church. You know they have more money than any country in Europe. Their tied to mafia in the banking system. It's has been said that the higher up in the church are also in the free masons. The masons thing I don't know so please don't quote me on it. I have heard this from more than 1 source. Yes I am tainted and bias! Yes I may not have all my ducks in a row. Yes I know I may not have any logic to why i hate this church so much. Just give it down to my gut feeling. After what i went through and nothing happened to the Father or the Bishop or anyone else at the church. I will always know what happened.
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04-02-2012, 02:12 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(04-02-2012 01:49 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  I have my own personal reasons for such a hatred for the church. I wont go into it on this site. When i was child I was abused and that's all i will say. You can love that unholy church all you want. It is a farce at best. We could go into the Spanish killing Native people in the name of GOD through the Holy Catholic church. All under the popes wishes. They had to get that gold you know. Have you heard the name Cortez? He killed a whole native people. All in the name of the Catholic Church. Their is just one example and if I had time i could go back to the very start. The original cannons were picked by a corrupt counsel at Nicaea and who was the final judges. They have found that if it was not what the church was preaching it was thrown out. They burned and destroyed books. Just like the archaeology and the Inca tablets that the church burned because it was of the devil. I F**king hate that church. You know they have more money than any country in Europe. Their tied to mafia in the banking system. It's has been said that the higher up in the church are also in the free masons. The masons thing I don't know so please don't quote me on it. I have heard this from more than 1 source. Yes I am tainted and bias! Yes I may not have all my ducks in a row. Yes I know I may not have any logic to why i hate this church so much. Just give it down to my gut feeling. After what i went through and nothing happened to the Father or the Bishop or anyone else at the church. I will always know what happened.

Ohio:

I am deeply sorry for what you went through, and I know that you will find no comfort from those words coming from someone of the likes of me. I understand now the reasons for your vitrol, and although the response is hateful and irrational, at least to me, it IS understandable. You have my sympathies. I was not trying to defend the sex abuse in any way, but I hope you can try to forgive those who hurt you. I know that's tough to do, and I know this will sound heartless, but it would be better for you to forgive your abuser and let it go than remain angry and hurt all your life. I know that may sound cold, but as someone who was physically, verbally, emotionally and psychologically abused when he was a kid, I have found it to be the only thing that works. All that I can say is I'm sorry for what you went through, you have my sympathies and I won't press the issue any further. If any of what I've said has offended you, I apologize. That was not my intent.
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04-02-2012, 02:18 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(03-02-2012 09:13 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  We know so very little in my opinion. Also, I think where we fundamentally disagree is over the interpretation of scientific evidence in regards to the existence of the supernatural. To me, science has shown how it is POSSIBLE for God to not exist, not that it doesn't. Interpretation of things is involved just as much in science as it is religion. To me at least.

Oh boy. Here we go with another person who has no method to form his understanding of reality yet is confident that "We know so very little in my opinion".
Speak for yourself please. The Scientific community knows a hell of a lot.
The religious are the ones who flounder in mindless cherry picking of data to perpetuate things like the young Earth thing.

"Interpretation of things is involved just as much in science as it is religion".
It comes down to the method of interpretation.
If you use a universally accepted method on the two of these such as The Scientific Method to determine accuracy, the interpretation will be clear.
No God.
If you use your gut feelings, you will be led astray.

Aircraft have indicators that confirm the pilots "feeling".
They do this because the pilots can get vertigo or otherwise have the wrong "feeling" and crash the plane unknowingly.
It is best to check you feelings at the door and use something a little more sound.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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04-02-2012, 02:47 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(04-02-2012 02:18 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(03-02-2012 09:13 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  We know so very little in my opinion. Also, I think where we fundamentally disagree is over the interpretation of scientific evidence in regards to the existence of the supernatural. To me, science has shown how it is POSSIBLE for God to not exist, not that it doesn't. Interpretation of things is involved just as much in science as it is religion. To me at least.

Oh boy. Here we go with another person who has no method to form his understanding of reality yet is confident that "We know so very little in my opinion".
Speak for yourself please. The Scientific community knows a hell of a lot.
The religious are the ones who flounder in mindless cherry picking of data to perpetuate things like the young Earth thing.

"Interpretation of things is involved just as much in science as it is religion".
It comes down to the method of interpretation.
If you use a universally accepted method on the two of these such as The Scientific Method to determine accuracy, the interpretation will be clear.
No God.
If you use your gut feelings, you will be led astray.

Aircraft have indicators that confirm the pilots "feeling".
They do this because the pilots can get vertigo or otherwise have the wrong "feeling" and crash the plane unknowingly.
It is best to check you feelings at the door and use something a little more sound.

Yes scientists know lots of stuff, I understand that, but it pales in comparison to how much we don't know. When people prop up science or evolution or whatever as a dogmatism to explain everything, they commit the same fallacy as the God in the Gaps folks. I find this scientific triumphalism to be indicative of our collective pride and arrogance as a species.

The issue is that both sides of the debate are predisposed to naturalism or supernaturalism. Of course the Scientific Method if used in this issue will say there is no God, its already built on the assumption that the natural explanation is the best one, and is therefore biased as much as metaphysical explanations are towards God. I perfer to look at the situation and see which one makes the most sense. So far neither side has convinced me in terms of logic and reasoned arguement that they're correct. At most Atheism has proven that its possible for it to be correct, but possible does not mean that it is. But I like to deal in certainties on this issue, and what I am certain of is that neither side has proved its point on this. Therefore, since reason has failed to convince me either way, I will trust my gut.

And human instinct is what's lead to the preservation of this species for thousands of years. Unless its proven wrong, I see no reason to be skeptical of it. It is largely responsible for our survival as a species and that seems a very good reason for me to trust it.
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04-02-2012, 03:12 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(04-02-2012 02:47 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  "...the Scientific Method if used in this issue will say there is no God, its already built on the assumption .... and is therefore biased ... .

NO. I must stop you there.
The Scientific Method carries no bias. That is why it is so useful and valuable to us. It will follow the evidence for better or for worse.
Its beauty is also that when it is wrong it will self correct and move the entire knowledge base forward to the more correct position.

(04-02-2012 02:47 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  And human instinct is what's lead to the preservation of this species for thousands of years. Unless its proven wrong, I see no reason to be skeptical of it. It is largely responsible for our survival as a species and that seems a very good reason for me to trust it.

You would make a poor pilot. God gauges do not work.
Co-pilot to pilot Nagoda: "I can't see a thing through this fog."
"Pilot Nagoda to co-pilot. That's OK, I can 'feel' my way through. Are the wings level? Are we ascending or descending? Is that the runway? Whaddya think? It 'feels' like we're ...."

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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04-02-2012, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 03:28 PM by Nagoda.)
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(04-02-2012 08:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  What is your opinion on the Bible?

Fabulous book, full of contradictions, plain out wrong in spots, full of bad science, but generally inspired when it comes to matters of salvation. The Bible is not the Word of God, the Word of God is in the Bible, and not everything in the Bible is God's Word. How could you expect it to all work when tis being interpreted by human beings and communicated by a God who is not perfect, and does not claim to be perfect anywhere in the scriptures? And before you quote the verse from Matthew "be perfect just as your father in Heaven is perfect" you should know that the word used here in Aramaic would be closer to connotations of holiness than perfection. In fact, our concept of perfection as inerrant does not match with the Greco-Roman conception of perfection in Jesus' world. Perfect comes from the Latin perficere, "to complete or accomplish" and thus to be perfect is to be completed, not to be without error.
(04-02-2012 03:12 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 02:47 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  "...the Scientific Method if used in this issue will say there is no God, its already built on the assumption .... and is therefore biased ... .

NO. I must stop you there.
The Scientific Method carries no bias.

No, I must stop YOU there. Of course the Scientific Method carries biases, it was made by humans and is therefore loaded with biases and assumptions. It works off the assumption that everything in the Natural World can be explained naturally and therefore is biased towards Naturalism. To say that the method is free of bias is to say that it does not reflect the biases and assumptions of its creators. Nothing sir, is truly objective as long as it is made by human minds or hands. To say the scientific method is not biased at all is to say its creators are not biased and did not put their own bias into the method. Which of course they did, because that is what human beings do. Human beings are incredibly biased. To think that they do not impart some of this bias in their creations is not only fallible, its laughable.

To say that a method created by biased fallible humans is not baised in the slightest is like saying the Pope is Infallible: it's simply makes NO SENSE.
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04-02-2012, 04:27 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
Hi Nagoda, I don't think I've run across you yet, so welcome to the forum. Smile

I don't really have any questions about the religious aspects of Catholicism per se... I like the windows by the way.
I briefly read your opinion that the church's progressive reform pretty much ended with JP2 and I would agree.
Do you have any ideas on John Paul 1?
Any speculation what direction he may have taken the church?
Any personal inklings of conspiracy surrounding his quick reign and death going on there?

Come on -dish- I won't tell anybody. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-02-2012, 04:49 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(04-02-2012 04:27 PM)kim Wrote:  Hi Nagoda, I don't think I've run across you yet, so welcome to the forum. Smile

I don't really have any questions about the religious aspects of Catholicism per se... I like the windows by the way.
I briefly read your opinion that the church's progressive reform pretty much ended with JP2 and I would agree.
Do you have any ideas on John Paul 1?
Any speculation what direction he may have taken the church?
Any personal inklings of conspiracy surrounding his quick reign and death going on there?

Come on -dish- I won't tell anybody. Wink

Absolutely wonderful Pope. My second favourite next to John XXIII. He did not want the job, was reluctant to take it, and felt they'd made a mistake by choosing him. I think that shows right there he was the right man for the job. He never read the speeches given to him by the Curia, and made such provocative comments as God is both a mother and a father. Other awesome facts about him is that he was a supporter of gay adoption, and believed the love of the parents was what mattered and not the gender. Under his papacy, many children found their way to loving same sex parents. He was also shortly before his death looking to reverse the Church's teaching on contraception, which is neither dogmatic nor infallible by catholic standards, and do away with Humane Vitae, the document which put forth the teaching. He died shortly before he could put this plan into action, and I believe it likely that he was murdered by members of the Curia since he was a clear threat to their power and authority. Its a shame his reign was so short. Imagine if he'd lived, the church would look so different than it does today!
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04-02-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(04-02-2012 03:17 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  To say that a method created by biased fallible humans is not biased in the slightest is like saying the Pope is Infallible: it's simply makes NO SENSE.

The scientific method is unbiased. It has no viewpoint, it is neutral.

It is simply about examining the evidence and drawing a conclusion based on the facts that have been examined.

If the scientific method is biased, it defeats the whole purpose of its existence.

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04-02-2012, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 05:10 PM by Thomas.)
RE: Ask A Catholic!
Joe Ratzinger is taking the church back to its roots of anti-Jew and pro-christian-fascism. He has made the claim that Hitler was a secular dictator and is an example of what a secular world would look like. He didn't do himself a favor saying this. As we know Hitler was Roman Catholic, not to say this is why he murdered 6 million Jews, but give me the alternate reason.

The Catholic church is set for the long-run. If all the parishioners walked away tomorrow they have the funds to live out their lives in decent comfort. Near my home they are building a massive priest retirement complex that looks like a city from the highway. They are not building churches to the likes of this.

I suspect they see the end coming. European Christian church attendance is way down and the young are not attending as all. In the US they are growing at around 1% and this is from Mexican Catholic immigrants. I started as a catholic and in my family of 27 grandchildren, 3 go to church. Of those their spouses are secular and so are the kids. The line ends in my family completely.

Is it the death of an era? Sure appears so.

BUT in America the fight is really with the Born-Agains. They are the ones who polled at only 5% believing evolution is true. They are the ones who believe around 80% that Jesus is returning in their lifetime. They are the literalists who believe homosexuals and atheists should be executed. You know them as they have the Rapture bumper sticker. As them if you can have their stuff when they rapture up and they will take you seriously.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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