Ask Some Atheists
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28-06-2016, 08:48 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists



#sigh
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09-09-2017, 05:20 AM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
Hi folks, I'm trying to increase my knowledge base and become a more effective atheist when it comes to discussion and debate.
A local astrologer was recently challenged by an interviewer who posited that astrology was woo and that there was no scientific evidence that it works. The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/ is valid.
There are logical fallacies in there some where but I'm struggling to name them, I'm thinking straightforward straw man but wondering if there are any others. Can anyone help with naming them ?
Cheers Adey.
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09-09-2017, 06:12 AM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(09-09-2017 05:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Hi folks, I'm trying to increase my knowledge base and become a more effective atheist when it comes to discussion and debate.
A local astrologer was recently challenged by an interviewer who posited that astrology was woo and that there was no scientific evidence that it works. The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/ is valid.
There are logical fallacies in there some where but I'm struggling to name them, I'm thinking straightforward straw man but wondering if there are any others. Can anyone help with naming them ?
Cheers Adey.

> The astrologer is simply making an assertion without backing it up with evidence. The proper reply to his claim that astrology is scientific would simply be, "Citations needed."

> This list might be helpful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
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09-09-2017, 06:20 AM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(09-09-2017 06:12 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 05:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Hi folks, I'm trying to increase my knowledge base and become a more effective atheist when it comes to discussion and debate.
A local astrologer was recently challenged by an interviewer who posited that astrology was woo and that there was no scientific evidence that it works. The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/ is valid.
There are logical fallacies in there some where but I'm struggling to name them, I'm thinking straightforward straw man but wondering if there are any others. Can anyone help with naming them ?
Cheers Adey.

> The astrologer is simply making an assertion without backing it up with evidence. The proper reply to his claim that astrology is scientific would simply be, "Citations needed."

> This list might be helpful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Thanks Gwaithmir very helpfulSmile
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09-09-2017, 06:21 AM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2017 06:25 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(09-09-2017 05:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Hi folks, I'm trying to increase my knowledge base and become a more effective atheist when it comes to discussion and debate.
A local astrologer was recently challenged by an interviewer who posited that astrology was woo and that there was no scientific evidence that it works. The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/ is valid.
There are logical fallacies in there some where but I'm struggling to name them, I'm thinking straightforward straw man but wondering if there are any others. Can anyone help with naming them ?
Cheers Adey.

The scientific fact that plantes align does not mean that this has any effect /significance other than humans giving it some significance (see: deck of cards and #2)
So: non sequitur unless it is shown that planets have an observable effect at all

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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09-09-2017, 06:34 AM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(09-09-2017 06:21 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 05:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Hi folks, I'm trying to increase my knowledge base and become a more effective atheist when it comes to discussion and debate.
A local astrologer was recently challenged by an interviewer who posited that astrology was woo and that there was no scientific evidence that it works. The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/ is valid.
There are logical fallacies in there some where but I'm struggling to name them, I'm thinking straightforward straw man but wondering if there are any others. Can anyone help with naming them ?
Cheers Adey.

The scientific fact that plantes align does not mean that this has any effect /significance other than humans giving it some significance (see: deck of cards and #2)
So: non sequitur unless it is shown that planets have an observable effect at all

Thanks Deesse, these are points I had not considered fully, so very useful thank you. My big stumbling block is naming fallacies, I can identify quite a few but struggle to name them correctly.
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09-09-2017, 02:04 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(09-09-2017 05:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/is valid...

The simplest rebuttal is that Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn simply appear to be in alignment from the perspective of an observer on Earth. They're never physically aligned.

The Skeptic's Dictionary - Astrology

Astronomer Phil Plait developed a model in which he mathematically explained how unlikely it is that this putative "alignment" of the planets are causal of any effects on the Earth. He says that the planets in the solar system are adequately separated anyway; therefore, in every "alignment" there is a distance between each planet's diametrical axis to the sun of around 384,400km (238,855 miles).

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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11-09-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(09-09-2017 05:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Hi folks, I'm trying to increase my knowledge base and become a more effective atheist when it comes to discussion and debate.
A local astrologer was recently challenged by an interviewer who posited that astrology was woo and that there was no scientific evidence that it works. The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/ is valid.
There are logical fallacies in there some where but I'm struggling to name them, I'm thinking straightforward straw man but wondering if there are any others. Can anyone help with naming them ?
Cheers Adey.

And since the astrologer is saying because science, here's a little science. Seems the planets aren't quite in the same place astrology left them:

" Why have star signs shifted by one constellation?

Can you please tell me why it is that star constellations have now 'shifted' into the next constellation, as such everyone's star signs are wrong. I know it's to do with the 'wobble' of Earth but find it hard to explain to my friend."

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-u...termediate


" Unbeknownst to the ancient astrologers, the Earth continually wobbles around its axis in a 25,800-year cycle. This wobble—called precession—is caused by the gravitational attraction of the Moon on Earth's equatorial bulge.

 Over the past two-and-a-half millennia, this wobble has caused the intersection point between the celestial equator and the ecliptic to move west along the ecliptic by 36 degrees, or almost exactly one-tenth of the way around. This means that the signs have slipped one-tenth—or almost one whole month—of the way around the sky to the west, relative to the stars beyond.

 Your "Real Sign"

The table below lists the dates when the Sun is actually within the astronomical constellations of the Zodiac, according to modern constellation boundaries and corrected for precession (these dates can vary a day from year to year).

You will most likely find that once precession is taken into account, your zodiac sign is different. And if you were born between November 29 and December 17, your sign is actually one you never saw in the newspaper: you are an Ophiuchus! The eliptic passes through the constellation of Ophiuchus after Scorpius.

Now you really have something cool with which to start that conversation!

Check out your “real” zodiac sign below and see what the sky looked like on your birthday by going to the Birthday Sky application.

Capricorn - Jan 20 to Feb 16
Aquarius - Feb 16 to Mar 11
Pisces - Mar 11 to Apr 18
Aries - Apr 18 to May 13
Taurus - May 13 to Jun 21
Gemini - Jun 21 to Jul 20
Cancer - Jul 20 to Aug 10
Leo - Aug 10 to Sep 16
Virgo - Sep 16 to Oct 30
Libra - Oct 30 to Nov 23
Scorpius - Nov 23 to Nov 29
Ophiuchus - Nov 29 to Dec 17
Sagittarius - Dec 17 to Jan 20"

 https://www.livescience.com/4667-astrological-sign.html

So where does that leave the horoscopes and star sign characteristics, especially since there's a whole new star sign?
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15-09-2017, 06:30 AM
RE: Ask Some Atheists
(09-09-2017 05:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Hi folks, I'm trying to increase my knowledge base and become a more effective atheist when it comes to discussion and debate.
A local astrologer was recently challenged by an interviewer who posited that astrology was woo and that there was no scientific evidence that it works. The astrologer came back with the argument that its a scientific fact planets align ergo astrology works/ is valid.
There are logical fallacies in there some where but I'm struggling to name them, I'm thinking straightforward straw man but wondering if there are any others. Can anyone help with naming them ?
Cheers Adey.

I'll let Carl Sagan himself explain it:




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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