Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
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22-08-2012, 04:21 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
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22-08-2012, 04:25 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:10 PM)elemts Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 03:50 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  ....Thus I find them compelling because they would have been written during the time when people who actually witnessed these events could have confirmed or contradicted them.

The Gospel is a living truth in the sense it's message of love and hope has a daily affect on the way we live our lives.

I edited out the rest as it doesn't apply for this comment: it does assume that the bible was spread the same as it is today, people were able to read and have knowledge as we do today, and so on.

If someone said "I came from the middle east" and there was no internet, I knew no one from the middle east, and no way to prove it--I may accept it as potentially true. Back then, I doubt everyone could read (they can't now), and those that could would be the ones telling others what was going on. Whether it happened or not, the people would have no real way to know shy of accepting what others said. At the same time, if the people knew the stories were just stories (not real), why contradict them? They'd know they were false; it'd be like someone going to a movie and screaming "what's wrong with you people, this obviously didn't happen!" like during some sci-fi or end-of-the-world movie.
Who would die for a story they didn't believe to be true though? The apostles witnessed these things firsthand and suffered and died defending the claim that Christ rose from the dead.
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22-08-2012, 04:34 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 03:56 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  1. I don't see the need for reconciliation.
2. I don't believe there are many inaccuracies, but my answer remains the same as the one I gave you regarding inerrancy. Scientific and historical accuracy to the exactitude of modern standards was not the goal of the Genesis account nor of any part of Scripture.
3. I have a hard time accepting macro-evolution because I see little proof for it. If it could be proven, I would not have a hard time accepting it. Evolution is a scientific issue for me, not a religious one.

What gave you the idea that you are in any way qualified to set yourself up here, supposedly as some sort of expert, in light of the pathetic answers you just gave to the above ?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...e+mythic+o

As I pointed out yesterday, there is as much, if not better evidence for the Salem wites being witches, as the resurrection. You did not answer. Do you plan to ? Are you able to ? You you plan on starting new threads, and running away from questions ? You have not even begun to answer the objections and questions presented to you yesterday. Are you planning on do so ? Or should we just dismiss you as a flake, coming here to feel self important, because you think you have some sort of expertise which apparently you do not ?

How many coureses in Biology have you had ?
How many courses in Evolutionary Biology have you had ?
How much Math have you had ?
How much Physics have you had ?
How many courses in Genetics have you had ?
I'm sorry, but my world of discussion didn't revolve around you in my introduction. If you didn't notice, there was 25 pages and counting of responses. Thus I must have missed your comment. I have a life outside of this forum and so I cannot commit all my time to answering every one of the questions raised in that thread.

I'm studying to become a pastor, not a scientist. I've taken up to pre-calc mathematics, and I took biology, chemistry, and physics in high school.
How many Biblical hermeneutics classes have you taken?
How many Old Testament classes have you taken?
How many New Testament classes have you taken?
How many theology classes have you take?
None of my responses to kings questions had anything to do with those fields you listed, and I have never claimed to be an expert in those areas. If you have a theological or religious question, ask it. If not, go to the other thread I started.
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22-08-2012, 04:34 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:25 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  Who would die for a story they didn't believe to be true though? The apostles witnessed these things firsthand and suffered and died defending the claim that Christ rose from the dead.

That some people believed it is not very convincing. You believe it enough to waste your life proselytizing it, yet I am unconvinced.

The apostles didn't leave any accounts. We only have the four gospels written after the fact, second-hand, third-hand, ... with no other accounts confirming these four contradictory stories.

Read Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus for some scholarly criticism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2012, 04:39 PM
Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:25 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 04:10 PM)elemts Wrote:  I edited out the rest as it doesn't apply for this comment: it does assume that the bible was spread the same as it is today, people were able to read and have knowledge as we do today, and so on.

If someone said "I came from the middle east" and there was no internet, I knew no one from the middle east, and no way to prove it--I may accept it as potentially true. Back then, I doubt everyone could read (they can't now), and those that could would be the ones telling others what was going on. Whether it happened or not, the people would have no real way to know shy of accepting what others said. At the same time, if the people knew the stories were just stories (not real), why contradict them? They'd know they were false; it'd be like someone going to a movie and screaming "what's wrong with you people, this obviously didn't happen!" like during some sci-fi or end-of-the-world movie.
Who would die for a story they didn't believe to be true though? The apostles witnessed these things firsthand and suffered and died defending the claim that Christ rose from the dead.

This would be a true statement if you had reliable evidence that there actually were apostles. I hope that you already know that the authors of the biblical documents are anonymous. There are some letters that can be ascribed to Paul, but certainly most of the New Testament remains anonymous. There is no evidence of any kind from that period that any of these "eyewitnesses" ever existed.
Given this point, your "evidence" is suspect at best, but hardly verification of the NT documents.

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22-08-2012, 04:42 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:25 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 04:10 PM)elemts Wrote:  I edited out the rest as it doesn't apply for this comment: it does assume that the bible was spread the same as it is today, people were able to read and have knowledge as we do today, and so on.

If someone said "I came from the middle east" and there was no internet, I knew no one from the middle east, and no way to prove it--I may accept it as potentially true. Back then, I doubt everyone could read (they can't now), and those that could would be the ones telling others what was going on. Whether it happened or not, the people would have no real way to know shy of accepting what others said. At the same time, if the people knew the stories were just stories (not real), why contradict them? They'd know they were false; it'd be like someone going to a movie and screaming "what's wrong with you people, this obviously didn't happen!" like during some sci-fi or end-of-the-world movie.
Who would die for a story they didn't believe to be true though? The apostles witnessed these things firsthand and suffered and died defending the claim that Christ rose from the dead.

A lot of people have died for a lot of reasons--and just because someone believes something to be true, doesn't make it true. And this says nothing about who really wrote the gospels, problems in stories over time.... and probably a number of things posted by others by the time I post this that will point things out.

Of course the second part can be misleading.... did they really die defending the claim, or die in a sense "trying to overthrow the state/govt/dictator/whatever's religion"... It's not like there was a "believe whatever" thing back then, it was more of a "believe this or else".
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22-08-2012, 04:42 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:34 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 04:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What gave you the idea that you are in any way qualified to set yourself up here, supposedly as some sort of expert, in light of the pathetic answers you just gave to the above ?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...e+mythic+o

As I pointed out yesterday, there is as much, if not better evidence for the Salem wites being witches, as the resurrection. You did not answer. Do you plan to ? Are you able to ? You you plan on starting new threads, and running away from questions ? You have not even begun to answer the objections and questions presented to you yesterday. Are you planning on do so ? Or should we just dismiss you as a flake, coming here to feel self important, because you think you have some sort of expertise which apparently you do not ?

How many coureses in Biology have you had ?
How many courses in Evolutionary Biology have you had ?
How much Math have you had ?
How much Physics have you had ?
How many courses in Genetics have you had ?
I'm sorry, but my world of discussion didn't revolve around you in my introduction. If you didn't notice, there was 25 pages and counting of responses. Thus I must have missed your comment. I have a life outside of this forum and so I cannot commit all my time to answering every one of the questions raised in that thread.

I'm studying to become a pastor, not a scientist. I've taken up to pre-calc mathematics, and I took biology, chemistry, and physics in high school.
How many Biblical hermeneutics classes have you taken?
How many Old Testament classes have you taken?
How many New Testament classes have you taken?
How many theology classes have you take?
None of my responses to kings questions had anything to do with those fields you listed, and I have never claimed to be an expert in those areas. If you have a theological or religious question, ask it. If not, go to the other thread I started.

If you make claims about the natural world without some understanding of the science and evidence, you are a fool.
I have read your Bible, I have read your apologetics, I have read textual criticism, archaeology, and history. You need to read and understand outside of theology if you want to have a prayer of making any argument that has any merit.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2012, 04:45 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
No need for reconciliation?

I'm assuming you haven't researched the topic. If you had, you wouldn't have said this.

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22-08-2012, 04:45 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 04:34 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  I'm sorry, but my world of discussion didn't revolve around you in my introduction. If you didn't notice, there was 25 pages and counting of responses. Thus I must have missed your comment. I have a life outside of this forum and so I cannot commit all my time to answering every one of the questions raised in that thread.

I'm studying to become a pastor, not a scientist. I've taken up to pre-calc mathematics, and I took biology, chemistry, and physics in high school.
How many Biblical hermeneutics classes have you taken?
How many Old Testament classes have you taken?
How many New Testament classes have you taken?
How many theology classes have you take?
None of my responses to kings questions had anything to do with those fields you listed, and I have never claimed to be an expert in those areas. If you have a theological or religious question, ask it. If not, go to the other thread I started.

If you make claims about the natural world without some understanding of the science and evidence, you are a fool.
I have read your Bible, I have read your apologetics, I have read textual criticism, archaeology, and history. You need to read and understand outside of theology if you want to have a prayer of making any argument that has any merit.

My goal here is not to make arguments for the existence of God. I'm answering questions in the field I'm studying. I want to study more in the areas of science, and perhaps through conversations on the other thread I started I will learn more than I currently know.
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22-08-2012, 04:49 PM
RE: Ask TrueReason...Religious questions
(22-08-2012 04:45 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No need for reconciliation?

I'm assuming you haven't researched the topic. If you had, you wouldn't have said this.

What I assumed from what you wrote was that you meant the similarities between stories. Maybe you meant something else. Give me more specifics about the topic. It's possible I haven't been introduced to it yet.
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