Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
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12-02-2012, 01:46 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
(12-02-2012 11:58 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  *whispers to erxomai* I think Tom's coming on to me

He's a confident man who says it like it is. I think you two could be happy together.Heart

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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12-02-2012, 02:11 PM
OK, so where are the answers?
Time to start answering questions, you demon spawn of the Inquisition.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. It's the weekend and I was sleeping. Yes I know it's 4 pm, don't judge me.

First at TalladegaTom, in a word of explanation about my signature up there I happen to be a fan of Warhammer 40k. Especially the imperium. Also my line about defending to the death the church is not the same as killing for my church. I'll always think that John Lennon got it wrong when he said to imagine a world without anything to die for. In my opinion to "die for" is love while to "kill for" is hate.

All though I am well versed in science (sorry for the typo, I can't type and look at the screen at the same time and I don't review my work) I am considering it more of a hobby these days or if I do pursue it as a career it will be in wild life studies which is less lab and computer work. So do I use the Scientific method? no. Since I already believe in God I think it would be near impossible for me to approach it with an unbiased eye. However I never dismiss near proven concepts. Evolution is real, earth is old ect. I admit that I then try to fit science in to my concept of god, but I will also say that nothing has caused me to question the existence of God.

In the end I see that there is more evidence to suggest a loving personal god than there is against.

P.S. I am only 19 and have yet to go to University. in case you were wondering.

P.P.S. I will get to the rest of you as soon as I help my mom clean up the house.

P.P.P.S. I really like post scripts.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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12-02-2012, 03:52 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2012 09:52 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
TS,

1. Can you explain to me why your illustrious Dominican Doctor of the Church, (Aquinas), was condemned by the Archbishop of Paris in 1222, (or whenever it was) ? Hasn't his "natural law" business been effectively refuted by scientific observations ?

2. How is it your church declares in the Chatecism, and in Moral Theology, that the crux of a moral act is "intention", then goes on to say that deliberately, intentionally, objectively making a PLAN, (for ONLY one purpose)..."Natural Family PLANing", (taking temperatues, making charts, abstaining), is NOT immoral ? Clearly there is ONE intention. Is god stupid ? Do they think she won't notice what they're up to ?

3. If the "salvation" paradigm is correct, then it means (your) god is subject to, and exists within ("his") creature, (space-time). It means god "experienced"/saw, (also a temporally dependant concept), the "fall" of man, and UNTIL Jesus did the sacrifice, was not "satisfied", (also a temporally dependant concept). It means god "exists" and is dependent for his SEQUENCE of experiences, on a "temporal" order, (and cannot, therefore, be it's creator).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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12-02-2012, 04:01 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
(12-02-2012 03:36 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  So do I use the Scientific method? no.

Well heck, there's your problem.
Let me guess, it's all a feeling.

You have John Lennon a bit backwards.
I'm old enough to know.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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12-02-2012, 04:17 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
@TarzanSmith:

Once you've answered the questions people have already asked, perhaps you'd like to take on the formidable Stephen Fry. This is his presentation of the opposed side to the motion "The Catholic church is a force for good" in a 2009 London debate:




Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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12-02-2012, 04:39 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
ON to Erxomai.
To the question of third world Catholics. I think this is connected to the same reason why people in first world countries rarely go to war ( at least not to any great extent). Or the willingness to die for what you believe in. Its all the seven deadly sins except for hate and maybe pride. We become lazy, fat and complacent ect. I do think science has an effect in the decline as Francis Bacon did say (look below).

I actually have seen something similar to this. I have gone down to Jamaica with the religious group the Missionaries of the Poor led by Father Ho-Lung. The life these brothers lead has basically meant that not a single member of the order is from a first world country. The life is extremely hard, they have no money, 2 pairs of pants 3 shirts and their cassock. They only return to see their relatives one every 10 years even if their mother dies. And this year they were forced by the Vatican to go on vacation for a week every year. They spend most of their day dealing with the terminal ill including Aids patients. And unlike other religious orders they don't have any schooling other than English, a little theology and whatever they need for care giving. And they are extremely Happy. I think depression has a severe effect on religion because when they find God can't help them with all their problems they turn away.

Another thing I believe is that people justify their lifestyle with atheism since the bible is against premarital sex and stealing while our modern culture glorifies it. there was a study on the religiousness of teacher the goal being whether hard sciences lead more to atheism than soft sciences. The results found that there is no significant difference between the religiousness of soft versus hard but they did find that those who were married and had kids were more likely to be religious than those who were unmarried and living with a partner or were sexually active.

On the point of whether or not people who are not Catholic or Christian go to heaven. At my church we have a weekly newsletter and in the back there is a thing called dear Padre. Written by a Monsignor in the states this very question came up one week. I saved it just for such an occasion and if you like I could recite it for you as it is not long. If not A basic summary is that Jesus came to save everyone so it's still possible for you to go to heaven.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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12-02-2012, 05:07 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
(12-02-2012 04:39 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  ON to Erxomai.
To the question of third world Catholics. I think this is connected to the same reason why people in first world countries rarely go to war ( at least not to any great extent). Or the willingness to die for what you believe in. Its all the seven deadly sins except for hate and maybe pride. We become lazy, fat and complacent ect. I do think science has an effect in the decline as Francis Bacon did say (look below).

I actually have seen something similar to this. I have gone down to Jamaica with the religious group the Missionaries of the Poor led by Father Ho-Lung. The life these brothers lead has basically meant that not a single member of the order is from a first world country. The life is extremely hard, they have no money, 2 pairs of pants 3 shirts and their cassock. They only return to see their relatives one every 10 years even if their mother dies. And this year they were forced by the Vatican to go on vacation for a week every year. They spend most of their day dealing with the terminal ill including Aids patients. And unlike other religious orders they don't have any schooling other than English, a little theology and whatever they need for care giving. And they are extremely Happy. I think depression has a severe effect on religion because when they find God can't help them with all their problems they turn away.

Another thing I believe is that people justify their lifestyle with atheism since the bible is against premarital sex and stealing while our modern culture glorifies it. there was a study on the religiousness of teacher the goal being whether hard sciences lead more to atheism than soft sciences. The results found that there is no significant difference between the religiousness of soft versus hard but they did find that those who were married and had kids were more likely to be religious than those who were unmarried and living with a partner or were sexually active.

On the point of whether or not people who are not Catholic or Christian go to heaven. At my church we have a weekly newsletter and in the back there is a thing called dear Padre. Written by a Monsignor in the states this very question came up one week. I saved it just for such an occasion and if you like I could recite it for you as it is not long. If not A basic summary is that Jesus came to save everyone so it's still possible for you to go to heaven.


Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, Tarzan. Of course, I think you've already put your finger on what we atheists would believe to be your delusion: You're starting with the premise that God exists. I had the same problem. There was never a need to question if there's a God or not because I was born into a family that believed in God. Over a lot of years, that finally changed as my worldview expanded beyond the walls of the church. Coming to an understanding of how the brain has evolved to work the way it does helped me realize that all of my "god feelings" were just that...feelings, created by my brain.

Can you explain why your experience of knowing Jesus personally is different from a Muslim who personally knows Allah? Or are they going to heaven because Jesus came to save everyone?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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12-02-2012, 05:22 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
(12-02-2012 03:36 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  All though I am well versed in science (sorry for the typo, I can't type and look at the screen at the same time and I don't review my work) I am considering it more of a hobby these days or if I do pursue it as a career it will be in wild life studies which is less lab and computer work. So do I use the Scientific method? no.


I strongly suggest that you should not pursue an education or career in science without understanding and using the scientific method.
You won't be successful without it.

(12-02-2012 04:39 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  ... Its all the seven deadly sins except for hate and maybe pride. We become lazy, fat and complacent ect. I do think science has an effect in the decline as Francis Bacon did say (look below).
Pride, greed, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, sloth. Hate? Not in there.
Quote:Another thing I believe is that people justify their lifestyle with atheism since the bible is against premarital sex and stealing while our modern culture glorifies it. there was a study on the religiousness of teacher the goal being whether hard sciences lead more to atheism than soft sciences. The results found that there is no significant difference between the religiousness of soft versus hard but they did find that those who were married and had kids were more likely to be religious than those who were unmarried and living with a partner or were sexually active.
While you may believe this, the facts are quite different. Prison populations in the U.S. are overwhelmingly Christian & Muslim, not atheist.
Pregnancy among unmarried teens is more common in "Bible Belt" states than in the less religious Northeast and west coast.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2012, 05:43 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2012 05:48 PM by TarzanSmith.)
RE: Ask a Conservative Catholic/Dominican
Quote:Can you explain why your experience of knowing Jesus personally is different from a Muslim who personally knows Allah? Or are they going to heaven because Jesus came to save everyone?
Interestingly enough I have never really had a personal experience with Jesus. And my opinion on people who say they do is that about 95% of those people are delusional.
And at TalladegaTom It has nothing to do with a feeling as I have never really had those feelings.
My view on the scientific method is similar to my view on chivalry. Does it exist and is it the way it's supposed to be? yes. Was/is it wildly practised? no. I believe that the further away you get from math the less used the scientific method. Just look at global warming at the moment it seems the only consensus they are making is that the world is getting warmer.

The fact that I consider myself more of a historian than a scientist means I tend to start with a reason and then try to find evidence for said reason. since objectivity in history is almost impossible.

also Allah is the same God as mine so it is perfectly possible for a Muslim to have a religious experience. I treat Muslims and Jews the same as other Christians in that they have the truth and they have just Bastardized it.

Going to church now be back in an hour or two.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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