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16-02-2012, 03:43 AM
RE: Ask a Conservative
Hi Johnnie, nice to meet you. I'm not here as an economist but I'll take a stab at your questions. Let's make it a discussion and you tell me your views as well.

(15-02-2012 08:22 PM)JohnnieWalker Wrote:  Is a race to the bottom (in labor) the direct result of free markets? Where does it end?

I'm assuming you mean labor rates (wages). I would say that wages are a direct result of supply and demand, and an indirect result of free markets. By "where does it end" I'm assuming you mean when/how do they stabilize, and I would say its when the labor pool stabilizes. In recent years we've seen a huge increase in the number of global workers available due to China and perhaps other places. Over time the standard of living and wage demands will rise in China, leading toward more overall stabilization. That could be a long time however.

(15-02-2012 08:22 PM)JohnnieWalker Wrote:  Why are so many Republicans preaching trade liberalization yet they constantly want protectionist policies on pet (or even domestic) goods/companies?

Please give me a specific example of who/what you're thinking of here. Please bear in mind that I'm doing "ask a conservative" and not "ask a republican."

(15-02-2012 08:22 PM)JohnnieWalker Wrote:  I'm not as much worried about losing unskilled labor (or manual labor) jobs to China - I see it as a progression past the industrial age and into something greater. Those who can't adapt and "retool" are going to be left in the dust. What is our future as a nation (in terms of producing income)? Are you concerned or not concerned about losing unskilled jobs or even menially skilled jobs to overseas competitors?

I think we have similar views on this. My concern in this area is on US competitiveness and whether we are a competitive place to build factories and create jobs. If we're not, the jobs will go overseas. To tie-in with your earlier question, our competitiveness may not be primarily a result of labor rates. In Walter Isaacson's recent biography on Steve Jobs, I noted two things on competitiveness, neither of which was about labor rates:

1) "Jobs went on to urge that a way be found to train more American engineers. Apple had 700,000 factory workers employed in China, he said, and that was because it needed 30,000 engineers on-site to support those workers. 'You can't find that many in America to hire,' he said. These factory engineers did not have to be PhDs or geniuses; they simply needed to have basic engineering skills for manufacturing. Tech schools, community colleges, or trade schools could train them. "'If you could educate these engineers,' he said, 'we could move more manufacturing plants here.'"

2) "You're headed for a one-term presidency," he told Obama at the start of their meeting, insisting that the administration needed to be more business-friendly. As an example, Jobs described the ease with which companies can build factories in China compared to the United States, where "regulations and unnecessary costs" make it difficult for them.

(15-02-2012 08:22 PM)JohnnieWalker Wrote:  Do you think the party (GOP) will split?

No.
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16-02-2012, 12:40 PM
 
RE: Ask a Conservative
(15-02-2012 07:46 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Since joining this forum I've come to realize that the majority of members are political liberals, so in the spirit of other abuse-aholics such as Kingschosen (name does not stem from religious beliefs) I offer myself up as your local resource to question the mind of a political conservative.

I'll post my disclaimers here:

1. Keep it civil - I give it as I get it
2. Time is on my side. As you get older and wiser, you're likely to become more conservative in your thinking. Use this as an opportunity to learn why.
3. I may answer your question using material from other sources when I feel that the author has done a better job than I can of explaining something.
4. We live in a world dominated by liberal media, and therefore your personal views may appear to you to be just "normal" or "middle of the road." Please try to understand that your position is likely to be as extreme in the liberal direction as mine is in the conservative direction, hopefully illustrating where the real middle is.
5. My initial commitment is to try this for a week. If it feels unpleasant or pointless at that point I'll probably stop.

OK, over to you.

Jeff,
I am 42, own a Technical Recruiting Firm placing engineers at Manufacturing companies.

I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal. (gays marry, legalize pot, etc)

My question is WHAT the fuck happened to my old Party?

Here in employment land i see trends way before anyone else does. RIGHT now we are on the verge of another 1997 BOOM. I have never seen so many VP, Plant Manager, Director or Controller jobs in my career. Its insane and appears 2012 could be a near record breaking year for us. 2011 was quite good!

Why is it when Demz are president, we have major BOOMS?

For years i sneered and skoffed at the bumper sticker "To live like a republican you must vote like a democrat". I am beginning to almost believe it!

Why did the GOP sell its soul to the Religious Reich?
I sort of know the answer. Its to pander to an easy base of voters.

Since O'bush (obama) took office the Mandate of the Republicans has been to say NO at every twist and turn, so at the moment they cant take ANY credit for whats happening now in employment or the economy (not that i can see). As that bumbling fool of a VP says "GM is alive and Osama is dead". Sadly there is a mile of truth to that comment.

Why do so many current GOP folk believe the lies from the GOP platform?

I never left my party, it simply left me.

Oddly, the older i get.. the more liberal i have become, at least socially. Fiscally i want the HOUSE in order, but i personally SEE NOTHING WRONG with America taking care of each of us via Health Care (not that crap that was passed, but universal HC like in Canada or UK). We have subsidized streets in schools in lands i will never ever see but we cant get health care for those that have lost their jobs and need help. Thats truly sad.

What i have seen and firmly believe is that the GOP has done its BEST to Divide the United States. They just wanna call it States of America. I rarely see anyone that represents my old party anymore.

I eagerly await the "Conservative Party". The one that's agnostic to religion..accepts them all, and can get our financial mess in order.

Of the lot, the closest we have to that candidate..on the Republican/Conservative side...is Obama!

Not really sure if these are questions to ask you, but more of ranty blanket statements.

I have voted Republican more times than Democrat, that is a fact. These days the GOP is full of nothing but a bunch of lunatics. What happened to the Statesmen?

D
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16-02-2012, 12:44 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative
I'm a true fiscal conservative. Not a Republican. But I'm socially liberal. Which makes a Libertarian.

Are you a Hannity type Republcian OP?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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16-02-2012, 07:12 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative
(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal. (gays marry, legalize pot, etc)

We're in sync

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  My question is WHAT the fuck happened to my old Party?

It is being gang-raped by the religious right. By the way, I'm here as a conservative, not as a republican. I'm not interested in trying to defend any political party, just the conservative school of thought.


(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  Why is it when Demz are president, we have major BOOMS?

If you're thinking of Clinton, you've got to recognize that the dot com boom was simply fortunate timing.

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  Why did the GOP sell its soul to the Religious Reich?
I sort of know the answer. Its to pander to an easy base of voters.

Political strategy - selling out its real values to bring in a huge voting bloc. The thinking goes - what's the point of being right if you don't get elected?

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I never left my party, it simply left me.

Yes I feel the same way

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I eagerly await the "Conservative Party". The one that's agnostic to religion..accepts them all, and can get our financial mess in order.

I don't anticipate that this will happen, but I love the idea of it.

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  Of the lot, the closest we have to that candidate..on the Republican/Conservative side...is Obama!

I think Obama will be reelected and in the aftermath the republican leadership may come to recognize that the religious crap has gone way too far.

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I have voted Republican more times than Democrat, that is a fact. These days the GOP is full of nothing but a bunch of lunatics. What happened to the Statesmen?

I think the republicans have a good bench of talent coming up in the near future - Mitch Daniels would have been good this time around. I'm interested to see how people like Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, Ken Antonelli, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan develop. From my early viewings they appear to have competence with little religious baggage.
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16-02-2012, 08:32 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2012 08:35 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask a Conservative
(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  My question is WHAT the fuck happened to my old Party?

Let me know if you find it. Think it might've died with William F. Buckley Jr. Dude's gotta be rolling over in his grave. There's a theist I never dismissed out of hand just because of his metaphysical delusions. ... Got my new polling place card. Blushed at my party affiliation. ... Think we have hoisted ourselves on our own petard by giving the teatarded asswads too big a voice for their vote.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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16-02-2012, 09:18 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative
(15-02-2012 11:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  1) How do you define "conservative"?

This.
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17-02-2012, 09:01 AM
 
RE: Ask a Conservative
(16-02-2012 07:12 PM)Jeff Wrote:  If you're thinking of Clinton, you've got to recognize that the dot com boom was simply fortunate timing.

Jeff, that boom was more than just that Dot Com boom. It was MUCH more than 1 dimensional.
Automotive was busting loose like it never had before. Even though NAFTA was sending a shit load of jobs elsewhere, Manufacturing was still a crazy place.

Yes, the Dot Com boom was big but there were other factors as well.

(16-02-2012 07:12 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I think Obama will be reelected and in the aftermath the republican leadership may come to recognize that the religious crap has gone way too far.

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I have voted Republican more times than Democrat, that is a fact. These days the GOP is full of nothing but a bunch of lunatics. What happened to the Statesmen?

I think the republicans have a good bench of talent coming up in the near future - Mitch Daniels would have been good this time around. I'm interested to see how people like Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, Ken Antonelli, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan develop. From my early viewings they appear to have competence with little religious baggage.

I think if the GOP sheds its religious nut bags, it will be back stronger than ever. They simply are still holding on to the Regan years with a heaping dose of Rove.
They WANT to be the party of Family Values but with folks like Palin and Newt at the help, its impossible.

The Tea Party has run its course, me thinks. So the GOP will have to learn to silence the 'bat shit crazy' folks EARLY on. THIS political season has done HUGE damage to the Brand of the GOP. They let the Religious Nutz lead the party early on unchecked. I suppose the concept was to make the bad GOP look worse than it is..so when they came forward with THEIR chosen one, he'd look Squeaky Clean by comparison. Dunno. What ever the strategy was ....it failed.

As for Jindal, be careful there. He's a quite evangelical...one who's been wittiness to an actual exorcism! He's just 3 degrees less crazy as Bachmann/Palin.

I'll raise a glass of good red this weekend toasting to a newly reinvisioned Conservative party. We can only hope!

D
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17-02-2012, 11:57 AM
RE: Ask a Conservative
(16-02-2012 07:12 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal. (gays marry, legalize pot, etc)

We're in sync

If that is the case, being honest as I can be here. I do not see any point to this thread.

If you identify yourself as a social liberal but fiscal conservative then I don't think you are in a minority on this forum at all. At least not a large minority, especially with heavy active members; or, the host of the show this forum stands for on that matter.

I've liked some of the ask an outsider thread ideas but I think this in no way is one unless done so by a "American conservative" IE Neocon/social conservative... especially because if there were one who was also an atheist, that would be quite a interesting contrarian view.

The idea that the vast majority of atheists are liberal-moderate on all grounds of the political spectrum is at least overblown and why I have a big issue with The National Atheist Party's claims of that being their case.
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17-02-2012, 03:03 PM
RE: Ask a Conservative
(17-02-2012 09:01 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(16-02-2012 07:12 PM)Jeff Wrote:  If you're thinking of Clinton, you've got to recognize that the dot com boom was simply fortunate timing.

Jeff, that boom was more than just that Dot Com boom. It was MUCH more than 1 dimensional.
Automotive was busting loose like it never had before. Even though NAFTA was sending a shit load of jobs elsewhere, Manufacturing was still a crazy place.

Yes, the Dot Com boom was big but there were other factors as well.

(16-02-2012 07:12 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I think Obama will be reelected and in the aftermath the republican leadership may come to recognize that the religious crap has gone way too far.

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I have voted Republican more times than Democrat, that is a fact. These days the GOP is full of nothing but a bunch of lunatics. What happened to the Statesmen?

I think the republicans have a good bench of talent coming up in the near future - Mitch Daniels would have been good this time around. I'm interested to see how people like Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, Ken Antonelli, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan develop. From my early viewings they appear to have competence with little religious baggage.

I think if the GOP sheds its religious nut bags, it will be back stronger than ever. They simply are still holding on to the Regan years with a heaping dose of Rove.
They WANT to be the party of Family Values but with folks like Palin and Newt at the help, its impossible.

The Tea Party has run its course, me thinks. So the GOP will have to learn to silence the 'bat shit crazy' folks EARLY on. THIS political season has done HUGE damage to the Brand of the GOP. They let the Religious Nutz lead the party early on unchecked. I suppose the concept was to make the bad GOP look worse than it is..so when they came forward with THEIR chosen one, he'd look Squeaky Clean by comparison. Dunno. What ever the strategy was ....it failed.

As for Jindal, be careful there. He's a quite evangelical...one who's been wittiness to an actual exorcism! He's just 3 degrees less crazy as Bachmann/Palin.

I'll raise a glass of good red this weekend toasting to a newly reinvisioned Conservative party. We can only hope!

D
They have removed every moderate out of the GOP. You can thank the Tea Party for that . I am a liberal and proud of it. I have never voted Conservative, because they were never for my best interest. I've been a union man all my life. If you wonder what happened to all the jobs and work it's not rocket science. Deregulation and free trade has been the destruction of our nation. The demonetization of the unions has cost the decline of the middle class. Greed from Wall St. and corp. moving manufacturing to China was another death blow all due to free trade. Also when you let banks merge with Wall St brokers as one That too made it too big to fail. I am no economist. And i would have a lot to learn. But This is what i seen happen. The Dems. are just as guilty as the Republicans. BUT the dems will give a little more back.
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17-02-2012, 03:21 PM
 
RE: Ask a Conservative
(17-02-2012 03:03 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 09:01 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(16-02-2012 07:12 PM)Jeff Wrote:  If you're thinking of Clinton, you've got to recognize that the dot com boom was simply fortunate timing.

Jeff, that boom was more than just that Dot Com boom. It was MUCH more than 1 dimensional.
Automotive was busting loose like it never had before. Even though NAFTA was sending a shit load of jobs elsewhere, Manufacturing was still a crazy place.

Yes, the Dot Com boom was big but there were other factors as well.

(16-02-2012 07:12 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I think Obama will be reelected and in the aftermath the republican leadership may come to recognize that the religious crap has gone way too far.

(16-02-2012 12:40 PM)Denicio Wrote:  I have voted Republican more times than Democrat, that is a fact. These days the GOP is full of nothing but a bunch of lunatics. What happened to the Statesmen?

I think the republicans have a good bench of talent coming up in the near future - Mitch Daniels would have been good this time around. I'm interested to see how people like Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, Ken Antonelli, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan develop. From my early viewings they appear to have competence with little religious baggage.

I think if the GOP sheds its religious nut bags, it will be back stronger than ever. They simply are still holding on to the Regan years with a heaping dose of Rove.
They WANT to be the party of Family Values but with folks like Palin and Newt at the help, its impossible.

The Tea Party has run its course, me thinks. So the GOP will have to learn to silence the 'bat shit crazy' folks EARLY on. THIS political season has done HUGE damage to the Brand of the GOP. They let the Religious Nutz lead the party early on unchecked. I suppose the concept was to make the bad GOP look worse than it is..so when they came forward with THEIR chosen one, he'd look Squeaky Clean by comparison. Dunno. What ever the strategy was ....it failed.

As for Jindal, be careful there. He's a quite evangelical...one who's been wittiness to an actual exorcism! He's just 3 degrees less crazy as Bachmann/Palin.

I'll raise a glass of good red this weekend toasting to a newly reinvisioned Conservative party. We can only hope!

D
They have removed every moderate out of the GOP. You can thank the Tea Party for that . I am a liberal and proud of it. I have never voted Conservative, because they were never for my best interest. I've been a union man all my life. If you wonder what happened to all the jobs and work it's not rocket science. Deregulation and free trade has been the destruction of our nation. The demonetization of the unions has cost the decline of the middle class. Greed from Wall St. and corp. moving manufacturing to China was another death blow all due to free trade. Also when you let banks merge with Wall St brokers as one That too made it too big to fail. I am no economist. And i would have a lot to learn. But This is what i seen happen. The Dems. are just as guilty as the Republicans. BUT the dems will give a little more back.

Careful, the Unions HAVE contributed GREATLY to the loss of jobs too. For the GOOD they do (and there is good) there are some BIG BIG SINS they do that are monumental to the mass exodus of jobs. I have spoken with TOOOOOO many engineers in plants in detroit that spell out the insanity of the unions. I think a fair union in some instances is good...when the HR function fails. But Toyota and countless other Japanese companies have show that GOOD HR eliminates the need for Union representation.

SOME places still need STRONG unions though. I had a Pilot for Delta Air enlighten me to this.
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