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30-10-2012, 08:57 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
Plenty of non men have penises =p

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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30-10-2012, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2012 05:45 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
Gender vs. sex, gotcha. Anyway, I wouldn't have people call me mister, bleh, to formal, but I do consider myself to be a man, and I certainly have a penis. For the record I have said the word "penis" in the last three threads I've posted too...too much penis this morning Laugh out load

<Awaits gay joke from the children, young and old>

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30-10-2012, 11:10 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(30-10-2012 07:59 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Not sure what you mean by without. Romney was very much within the church. Is this leader far removed and very white? What is the highest position a woman can hold? I know they don't go knocking. I have a trans friend who is a mormon and that seemed to be handled relatiely ok. Though the famly eventually quelled the feelings. Discuss gender and Mormon thought please. That friend was ery uninterested in talking about mormonism because she knew it was all fake but liked the community.

Sorry, that was confusing. I was trying to differentiate between someone of prominence within the leadership and organization of the church and someone of prominence not within the leadership and organization. But that was happening in my head, and I completely convoluted your simple question. My apologies. The leader who I found the information on is Larry Echo Hawk. His picture can be found on this page. He's a member of the Quorum of the Seventy, which is the body just below the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

The Mormon church is pretty pathetic when it comes to women. This forum thread is a great summation of sexist attitudes and practices toward women. It's mostly correct, with a few exceptions:
1) I've never heard of women not being able to speak in sacrament meeting or General Conference before 1980. I was four in 1980, so I don't personally recall there being women speaking in sacrament meeting or not. But you can go to the church website and view conference videos of women speaking prior to 1980, so that claim is incorrect. 2) I've seen many women give opening prayers in sacrament meeting, so that claim is also incorrect. 3) Women cannot be excommunicated by a single man, her bishop or otherwise. This decision has to come from Salt Lake City. 4) Women can and do hold women-only events without a male priesthood holder presiding.
Other than those points, everything else here is pretty spot on. There are a number of high-level positions that women can hold in the church, e.g., General Young Women's President (the one in charge of overseeing the Young Women's Program of the church) and General Relief Society President ("Relief Society" is the women's organization of the church). But the forum thread has it correctly, even though these are "high-level" positions, no decisions can be made without approval from a male priesthood leader. And no woman oversees any man.

Unless things have changed recently, women missionaries knock doors just like men missionaries do. Of course, I haven't been in the loop in that regard for a number of years, but they did it when I was on my mission and my sister did it when she was on hers.

Gender in the Mormon church, to put it bluntly, sickens me. This was another gaping crack in the damn of my faith. I have two very good friends from high school who have been [un]officially shunned from the church because they are gay. And they are much, much better people than most Mormons I know. In fact it was a story written by one of them that made me fully realize how equal heterosexual and homosexual relationships truly are. When the church got involved in Prop 8 by spending tithing money, I wasn't the only believing member who was infuriated.

In the temple ceremony, women swear to follow their husbands "as he follows God." So as long as the man is following God, his wife must follow him, has sworn to follow him. But that begs the question, what if they differ on what that path really is? What then? There's a lot of talk and discussion about how men and women should work things out together and pray together and talk together, but at the end of the day, the woman is divinely subjugated to the man. Bowing It's right there in the ceremony, with a half-assed disclaimer attempting to exonerate the sexist nature of it.

Women in all areas of the church in all countries of the world where the church resides will tell you that this is divinely instituted and makes them better wives, mothers, sisters, and daughters. On principle I disagree.

Thanks for the comments. I'm enjoying the discussion.
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30-10-2012, 11:22 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(30-10-2012 09:06 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  too much penis this morning

Hey now. Morning wood is a physiological reality that simply must be accepted and not shunned, unlike marshmallow peeps. If anything deserves the wrath of a capricious creator, it's those things.
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30-10-2012, 11:22 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
My Mormon fiancee went on a mission to Finland about 20 years ago and was there for 2 years. Her best story of "saving" someone was that she convinced him to go back to his non-Mormon church - she figured getting a sad, depressed guy to have hope and come back to God at any church was a win. Her mission president (is that the right title?) disagreed, but she still counts it as a win.

I heard a couple of my coworkers joking about them recently (these guys are young, barely returned from their own missions in the last couple years) - their joke was something about how only ugly girls become sister missionaries. Not true. These guys were just jerks, but they thought it was hilarious.

So yes, there are sister missionaries and have been for at least 2 decades, maybe more.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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30-10-2012, 02:58 PM
Ask a Former Mormon
Wonderful thread. I already thought Mitt Romney as president was scary, even scarier that he is subject to what the prophet says. How does one become the prophet?

What was it like being on the two-year mission? How were you financially supported? Seems like it would be an interesting experience! What were typical reactions from people?
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30-10-2012, 05:24 PM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
I don't know much about Mormons because I loathe people waking me up by knocking on my door, so I have a few things to ask:

Why did you wake me up by rudely knocking on my door?

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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30-10-2012, 11:36 PM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(30-10-2012 02:58 PM)vanilla Wrote:  Wonderful thread. I already thought Mitt Romney as president was scary, even scarier that he is subject to what the prophet says. How does one become the prophet?

What was it like being on the two-year mission? How were you financially supported? Seems like it would be an interesting experience! What were typical reactions from people?

Hi vanilla,

One becomes prophet through decades of service in the church and moving up the ranks. When the prophet dies, the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles becomes the next prophet. The President of the Twelve gets to his position through being a member of the Twelve himself and other callings and positions over the course of many, many years. New apostles get chosen by the current Quorum and the First Presidency (which consists of the prophet and his first and second counselors).

Many Mormons will tell you how wonderful, albeit difficult, their missions were. Mine was a nightmare. There is little I recall that is positive. I was diagnosed Bipolar over 20 years ago, shortly before my mission, and it's been a very difficult struggle. Serving a mission for the church, spreading the warm fuzzy feelings of the gospel when I was very depressed a lot of the time was torture. Going to someone's door and telling them how happy the church would make them feel when I felt like slitting my wrists. But it was my duty as a 19-year old Mormon male. I really didn't have a choice. Well, not a choice that didn't involve a heavy amount of shame. My father served a mission before me, as well as my three older brothers and my older sister.

The support for missionaries comes largely from the families of the missionaries. Back in the day, there was a cost associated with the mission's location. For example, sending a missionary to Boise, Idaho is far less expensive then sending them to Sweden. We're talking discrepancies of hundreds of dollars a month for families depending on where their children are sent. In the early 90s the church changed the policy and had all families put in an equal amount. We were given debit cards to access funds that were deposited at the end of each month.

I went to southeast Texas on my mission, and responses of door-knocking were varied, although most people just said, "No thanks." I did get some slams in the face and "Mormons are going to hell," but there were also incredibly generous people who didn't want to have anything to do with the church, but invited us in on a hot summer's day for a cold drink. A couple people even invited us to eat with them. By and large the people of Texas were kind and generous. That's one of the positive things I took away from my mission.
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09-11-2012, 10:03 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(30-10-2012 11:10 AM)wrenekape Wrote:  
(30-10-2012 07:59 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Not sure what you mean by without. Romney was very much within the church. Is this leader far removed and very white? What is the highest position a woman can hold? I know they don't go knocking. I have a trans friend who is a mormon and that seemed to be handled relatiely ok. Though the famly eventually quelled the feelings. Discuss gender and Mormon thought please. That friend was ery uninterested in talking about mormonism because she knew it was all fake but liked the community.

Sorry, that was confusing. I was trying to differentiate between someone of prominence within the leadership and organization of the church and someone of prominence not within the leadership and organization. But that was happening in my head, and I completely convoluted your simple question. My apologies. The leader who I found the information on is Larry Echo Hawk. His picture can be found on this page. He's a member of the Quorum of the Seventy, which is the body just below the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

The Mormon church is pretty pathetic when it comes to women. This forum threadis a great summation of sexist attitudes and practices toward women. It's mostly correct, with a few exceptions:
1) I've never heard of women not being able to speak in sacrament meeting or General Conference before 1980. I was four in 1980, so I don't personally recall there being women speaking in sacrament meeting or not. But you can go to the church website and view conference videos of women speaking prior to 1980, so that claim is incorrect. 2) I've seen many women give opening prayers in sacrament meeting, so that claim is also incorrect. 3) Women cannot be excommunicated by a single man, her bishop or otherwise. This decision has to come from Salt Lake City. 4) Women can and do hold women-only events without a male priesthood holder presiding.
Other than those points, everything else here is pretty spot on. There are a number of high-level positions that women can hold in the church, e.g., General Young Women's President (the one in charge of overseeing the Young Women's Program of the church) and General Relief Society President ("Relief Society" is the women's organization of the church). But the forum thread has it correctly, even though these are "high-level" positions, no decisions can be made without approval from a male priesthood leader. And no woman oversees any man.

Unless things have changed recently, women missionaries knock doors just like men missionaries do. Of course, I haven't been in the loop in that regard for a number of years, but they did it when I was on my mission and my sister did it when she was on hers.

Gender in the Mormon church, to put it bluntly, sickens me. This was another gaping crack in the damn of my faith. I have two very good friends from high school who have been [un]officially shunned from the church because they are gay. And they are much, much better people than most Mormons I know. In fact it was a story written by one of them that made me fully realize how equal heterosexual and homosexual relationships truly are. When the church got involved in Prop 8 by spending tithing money, I wasn't the only believing member who was infuriated.

In the temple ceremony, women swear to follow their husbands "as he follows God." So as long as the man is following God, his wife must follow him, has sworn to follow him. But that begs the question, what if they differ on what that path really is? What then? There's a lot of talk and discussion about how men and women should work things out together and pray together and talk together, but at the end of the day, the woman is divinely subjugated to the man. Bowing It's right there in the ceremony, with a half-assed disclaimer attempting to exonerate the sexist nature of it.

Women in all areas of the church in all countries of the world where the church resides will tell you that this is divinely instituted and makes them better wives, mothers, sisters, and daughters. On principle I disagree.

Thanks for the comments. I'm enjoying the discussion.
As a former believer in the mormon faith- one thing you left out of the wonderful picture of the pathetic role of the woman in the mormon church is that when the resurrection comes the husband has a choice to call his wife from the grave or not....one of the reasons the husband gets the privilege to know her temple name and she is not allowed to know his!
Just thought i'd give my little bit of knowledge after living the life of a mormon woman for 39years.....

If no change in reality can change your belief - Then your belief is not based on anything in reality
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09-11-2012, 12:09 PM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
Great Q&A Thread here! Good job.
Since Mormons dont subscribe to the Doctrine of the Trinity...what i'd like to know is what they say about those ZILLIONS of christians that DO buy into 1+1+1=1?
Its not like the Trinity concept is some fringe concept. So how do they pitch 'We are right, and the others are wrong'?
Part of growing up a 'good' southern baptist was to KNOW the scriptures combined with the love of the trinity but equally important was to know why catholics and Church of Christ (and others) were WAY wrong. How did the Mormon church spin this?
D
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