Ask a Former Mormon
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09-11-2012, 10:43 PM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(09-11-2012 10:03 AM)Hope Wrote:  As a former believer in the mormon faith- one thing you left out of the wonderful picture of the pathetic role of the woman in the mormon church is that when the resurrection comes the husband has a choice to call his wife from the grave or not....one of the reasons the husband gets the privilege to know her temple name and she is not allowed to know his!
Just thought i'd give my little bit of knowledge after living the life of a mormon woman for 39years.....
I never actually thought of it that way, where the husband has a choice, but I guess that's what it comes down to, isn't it? And you're right, just another jacked up way Mormon women are repressed, and something they accept wholeheartedly as their "divine duty".

If you don't mind me asking, what got you out?
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09-11-2012, 10:58 PM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
As with all other doctrines of Mormonism that are different from mainstream Christians, they explain it as the Trinity not being the correct concept. Mormons believe that they have the "fullness of the gospel", meaning that they have the best, most clear, most correct answer of what's in the Bible, that Joseph Smith clarified much of the confusion of the Old and New Testaments (there's even a "Joseph Smith Translation" of some of the Bible). This happens to be one of those doctrines. Some think that this is the big disqualifier of Mormons being Christian, but if Christianity means that people can only be saved through the grace and atonement of Jesus Christ, then Mormons fit the bill.
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10-11-2012, 12:12 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(09-11-2012 10:43 PM)wrenekape Wrote:  
(09-11-2012 10:03 AM)Hope Wrote:  As a former believer in the mormon faith- one thing you left out of the wonderful picture of the pathetic role of the woman in the mormon church is that when the resurrection comes the husband has a choice to call his wife from the grave or not....one of the reasons the husband gets the privilege to know her temple name and she is not allowed to know his!
Just thought i'd give my little bit of knowledge after living the life of a mormon woman for 39years.....
I never actually thought of it that way, where the husband has a choice, but I guess that's what it comes down to, isn't it? And you're right, just another jacked up way Mormon women are repressed, and something they accept wholeheartedly as their "divine duty".

If you don't mind me asking, what got you out?
So many reasons- I will try to make this as short & sweet as possible-
I was raised in a mormon family and brought up in happy valley surrounded by the culture and assuming it is the only way to live and as a child it was just a way of life- an extremely isolated life.
I started questioning the church when I was a teenager although I assumed it was just a normal rebellion and letting the guilt of my rebellion set in- I of course felt like a sinner and did the usual repentance process...bishop visit and such.
I then thought the way to happiness was in a temple marriage and our course I needed to make sure he was a returned missionary- they are the best right ? Angel
I met my husband when I was 19 and married him 6 months later...and of course the typical lifestyle that I was taught to cherish- making babies and being a mother....after all those years of babies and no sleep we moved out of the lovely state of Utah- which was a wonderful thing considering my husband worked for the church.
I believe this is when I began to really look outside of the life I had been told to believe the religion that had ruled my every thought.
So many things came to a big ugly mess....lies and more lies....
I had been told by so many men of authority that questioning the church was my unfaithfulness and not to doubt or question authority- this really pissed me off and I knew if I was going to continue in this mess I needed to have some questions answered!
I found an awesome web-site http://mormonthink.com/introductionweb.htm and that just started the ball rolling.
So many things have happened in the past year- our oldest son is actually serving a mission for the lds church.
Most of our 8 children have left the lds church with us although they have been involved in a fundamentalist christian church which is my fault-
I would have to say that learning more and more about cognitive dissonance truly opened up a whole new world for me.
I came to a place where I couldn't believe in religion or god any longer- this was only a few months ago.
All of our family are active mormons my family tree goes back 5 generations all believers in the messed up fairy tale of Joesph Smith.
Reading your post was wonderful- if you ever want to vent or share your always welcome to ask away!

If no change in reality can change your belief - Then your belief is not based on anything in reality
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10-11-2012, 12:33 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
Warning: Below include questions that are partly political in nature. They've been whited out for those who don't want their virgin eyes soiled. Highlight to read.

Does Mormon belief hold any special place, role, status, etc regarding the United States as a nation, or its government specifically, relative to the other nations and governments of the world? A sort of American exceptionalism?

Why did Mormons make a big brouhaha about California's Prop 8? (One of those "define marriage as between one man and one woman anti-gay marriage ammedments that are all over the place. LDS really got behind it and pushed.) I can understand it (though not agree with) as a big religious stance in the culture war, but why choose a ballot proposition as the turf to fight that war rather than, say, door-to-door "education" drives? Was it simple tactics, thinking that the best way to reduce same-sex... activity was to eradicate legal same-sex marriage? (That seems like a stretch to me.) Some sort of idolization of government where Mormons think that government has the power to define marriage for religions, rather than simply for its own internal, bureaucratic and procedural purposes? Does Mormonism regard the federal and state governments themselves as somehow sacred institutions to be kept clean?

To be clear, I'm not focusing on same-sex marriage, so much as how Mormons relate and interact with the political process and how their manner of doing so reflects their beliefs. I bring up Prop 8 because it is the most recent example of strong Mormon engagement in the political process that is also within my limited sphere of awareness.


Forgive me for focusing on this one issue, but my only significant clash with Mormons (other than why did they knock on my door while I was trying to sleep) was on this point. Also, I realize that Mormons aren't the only subset of Christians that seem to have done that, but their theology is significantly... varied from the rest of Christianity and I was wondering if there was something in those differences that had a special impact here.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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10-11-2012, 04:28 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(10-11-2012 12:33 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Warning: Below include questions that are partly political in nature. They've been whited out for those who don't want their virgin eyes soiled. Highlight to read.

Does Mormon belief hold any special place, role, status, etc regarding the United States as a nation, or its government specifically, relative to the other nations and governments of the world? A sort of American exceptionalism?

Why did Mormons make a big brouhaha about California's Prop 8? (One of those "define marriage as between one man and one woman anti-gay marriage ammedments that are all over the place. LDS really got behind it and pushed.) I can understand it (though not agree with) as a big religious stance in the culture war, but why choose a ballot proposition as the turf to fight that war rather than, say, door-to-door "education" drives? Was it simple tactics, thinking that the best way to reduce same-sex... activity was to eradicate legal same-sex marriage? (That seems like a stretch to me.) Some sort of idolization of government where Mormons think that government has the power to define marriage for religions, rather than simply for its own internal, bureaucratic and procedural purposes? Does Mormonism regard the federal and state governments themselves as somehow sacred institutions to be kept clean?

To be clear, I'm not focusing on same-sex marriage, so much as how Mormons relate and interact with the political process and how their manner of doing so reflects their beliefs. I bring up Prop 8 because it is the most recent example of strong Mormon engagement in the political process that is also within my limited sphere of awareness.

Forgive me for focusing on this one issue, but my only significant clash with Mormons (other than why did they knock on my door while I was trying to sleep) was on this point. Also, I realize that Mormons aren't the only subset of Christians that seem to have done that, but their theology is significantly... varied from the rest of Christianity and I was wondering if there was something in those differences that had a special impact here.
Hey Reltzik,

Yes, Mormons believe in an American exceptionalism. According to Mormon doctrine, when Christ returns, he will return to Jerusalem, but will govern the world from two places: Jerusalem and Missouri. Mormons believe that the U.S.A. is a great country raised by God for the purpose of the restoration of the Gospel. The Native Americans are the descendants of ancient peoples from Jerusalem, although the Church changed that claim slightly a couple of years ago from the Lamanites (the ancient people) being the "principle ancestors of the Native Americans" to "among the ancestors of the Native Americans." Big difference. They might not say it out loud, but they do believe that at the core, America is a more-chosen country. This is one reason why the vast majority of them were so behind Mitt Romney. They thought it was all part of God's plan.

As far as prop 8 goes, I've heard a couple of answers from a Branch President and from a very dear, faithful friend. The first explanation was that if gay-marriage were legalized, then that would open up the floodgates for lawsuits for the Church where they would be sued for not allowing gay members to marry in their Church. B.S. I say. The second reason, which makes the least horrible sense, is that one of the doctrines of Mormonism is "eternal increase" and perpetuation, meaning that if you're faithful, and you go to the top level of the three-level Mormon heaven, then you continue to reproduce. If gay marriage were allowed, then this eternal procreation would not be possible. These are the least shaky arguments I've heard, alongside the suppressed homophobic and bigoted vitriol. Obviously, I don't buy it, and it's yet another example, among the hundreds, of why the Mormon church is particularly problematic: they can change their beliefs at any time if the prophet says so, claiming it as divine revelation.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the day will come that gays will be allowed to marry in the Mormon church. I don't think there's a way out of it. The country is moving toward that, and the Mormon church has a history of changing their position to fit the current social climate. But this is my own, personal view.
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10-11-2012, 07:36 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
As a ruler of an entire planet following death, can one do anything using your followers on said planet?

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10-11-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(10-11-2012 07:36 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As a ruler of an entire planet following death, can one do anything using your followers on said planet?
Of course. Mormons believe that they, like their Father in heaven before them, will become gods of their own planets. Now, most would have you believe that this means you continue the tradition of righteousness, purity, and truth with your own children on earth. You show them you love them and work toward them also becoming their own gods, but when it comes down to it, being omnipotent means having the power to do whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want. So the answer to your question is yes, and I think you would hard-pressed to find a faithful Mormon who could disagree with you on a denotative level.
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10-11-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(10-11-2012 07:36 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As a ruler of an entire planet following death, can one do anything using your followers on said planet?
Sorry Logica, that came off kind of aloof. Wasn't meant to be, just stating the fact. Smile
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10-11-2012, 09:59 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(10-11-2012 07:47 AM)wrenekape Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 07:36 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As a ruler of an entire planet following death, can one do anything using your followers on said planet?
Of course. Mormons believe that they, like their Father in heaven before them, will become gods of their own planets. Now, most would have you believe that this means you continue the tradition of righteousness, purity, and truth with your own children on earth. You show them you love them and work toward them also becoming their own gods, but when it comes down to it, being omnipotent means having the power to do whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want. So the answer to your question is yes, and I think you would hard-pressed to find a faithful Mormon who could disagree with you on a denotative level.
So could I create an empire and conquer other planets?
(10-11-2012 08:00 AM)wrenekape Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 07:36 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As a ruler of an entire planet following death, can one do anything using your followers on said planet?
Sorry Logica, that came off kind of aloof. Wasn't meant to be, just stating the fact. Smile
No problem. Big Grin

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10-11-2012, 11:50 AM
RE: Ask a Former Mormon
(10-11-2012 09:59 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  So could I create an empire and conquer other planets?
There would be no conquering required. You would be the God of your own realm. You would own and be master of everything. All the planets would be yours because you would have created them. Big Grin
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