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14-01-2014, 10:57 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(14-01-2014 10:55 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(14-01-2014 10:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't have my own opinion on this matter.

And therein lies the problem. You have someone else's opinion, or will.

I cannot imagine surrendering my own life for what someone else tells me I should think.

Right, I want to know what opinion Alla is told to have on the matter.

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14-01-2014, 10:58 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(14-01-2014 10:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(14-01-2014 10:34 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Alla, why do you think black people have dark skin?

I don't have my own opinion on this matter.

You already told me that you derive truth from the doctrines of the church, not your own opinion. It doesn't really seem fair to argue that you don't have to answer Raptor Jesus' question because you "don't have my own opinion on this matter." I hope you don't intend to cop out, however uncomfortable the question may be.

What is the position of the church, or the content of the church doctrine, on the subject of black people, their skin, it's origin or meaning?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

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14-01-2014, 11:01 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
Alla mate, you should just answer the question Smile ... You should know by now, there's enough ex LDS on here who already know the answer ... ... ...

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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15-01-2014, 04:16 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(20-10-2013 04:21 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I just want to thank you for taking the time to answer questions. I've learned some things I didn't know!

As I read the answers it got me wondering if in a few hundred years from now, people won't be discussing the flying spaghetti monster in a similar way.

Clearly the Mormon 'faith' started with Smith and a bit of crazy. Kinda like Saul of Tarsus brand of crazy.

Now there's lots of Mormons...

Just a dijointed moment of musing.

"people won't be discussing the flying spaghetti monster in a similar way."

How many wives does FSM have? Dirty old bastard, sticking his appendage where it doesn't belong.
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15-01-2014, 04:21 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(15-01-2014 04:16 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(20-10-2013 04:21 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I just want to thank you for taking the time to answer questions. I've learned some things I didn't know!

As I read the answers it got me wondering if in a few hundred years from now, people won't be discussing the flying spaghetti monster in a similar way.

Clearly the Mormon 'faith' started with Smith and a bit of crazy. Kinda like Saul of Tarsus brand of crazy.

Now there's lots of Mormons...

Just a dijointed moment of musing.

"people won't be discussing the flying spaghetti monster in a similar way."

How many wives does FSM have? Dirty old bastard, sticking his appendage where it doesn't belong.

None the FSM is a hit it and quit it god. Ain't no ring on his noodles.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-01-2014, 04:41 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
Is it true that you people dont dance?

Because we can dance when we want to
we can leave your friends behind
because your friends dont dance
and if they dont dance
then they aint no friends of mine

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15-01-2014, 04:51 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(15-01-2014 04:41 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Is it true that you people dont dance?

Because we can dance when we want to
we can leave your friends behind
because your friends dont dance
and if they dont dance
then they aint no friends of mine

[Image: safety-dance-chick-o.gif]

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15-01-2014, 08:06 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
I've been notified that an "Ask a Mormon" thread is going on here, and that someone is making pronouncements about Latter-day Saints belief and practice. I thought I'd come back here just to provide some clarification.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  1. You will be openly encouraged to avoid and reject those who do not hold identical or even similar values to yours.

Absolutely and completely false. No such notion is encouraged by the Church at all. In fact, not associating with non-members puts quite a significant damper on missionary work, one of the three missions of the Church. Latter-day Saints are in no way discouraged from associating with people who believe differently.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  You will be taught to judge and demonize those who engage in any religiously forbidden practice, such as drinking or smoking.

Also false. Latter-day Saints are not taught to "judge" or "demonize" anyone, but they are taught to avoid situations that pose potential risks to their safety and/or ethical integrity. I smoked for years, and not only am I glad to be free from that addiction now and from dealing with second-hand smoke, but I don't need the temptation. For those reasons, I probably wouldn't spend a great deal of time hanging out with someone who smoked a lot. Similar to my thoughts about alcohol, I believe tobacco is a valueless and harmful substance, but I don't begrudge anyone who makes the choice to consume it responsibly, provided they don't try to force it upon me.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  2. You will be encouraged to replace your previous friends, neighbors, etc.. with Mormon versions.

Also completely and totally false. Latter-day Saints are encouraged to avoid dangerous and morally compromising relationships (such as my two former friends from the Olive Garden with whom I had purchased, sold, and consumed a variety of illegal substances, and whom I later discovered would have had no compunctions whatsoever with abandoning me to any potential fate had I in any way impeded their next score), but those are in the significant minority for the vast majority of new members of the Church.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Family members not of your faith are now not to be considered as trustworthy or good as the average member.

Pure and utter fiction. Latter-day Saint ideology insists upon the inviolable sanctity of the family, within and without the boundaries of the community of faith. To pretend that the Church tries to drive a wedge in between families when one member is baptized stands in stark and flagrant contradiction to the Church's beliefs and standards. That's not to say no local leader or friend has ever tried to do it, but when it happens, rest assured it is a violation of the Church's principles. If leaders are not aware of that then they're not paying any attention at all to their duties.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  You will be taught to distrust reading material, media, or any other possible source of information, if it conflicts with the church in any way.

That's an overstatement. Leaders encourage members to exercise discernment in picking and choosing their media. The particular impressionability of youth compels many to add more and more warning labels to the internet, music, and movies, but if you have paid attention to the counsel given to youth over the years, you'll have noticed an evolution toward more generic and broad guidelines, and more agency placed in the individual's hands to make the decisions about what is right for them.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  3. Your time will be endlessly taken up engaged in church activities of all kinds, even to the point of utter exhaustion.

Another silly overstatement. There are 3 hours of meetings on Sunday and maybe three hours of home/visiting teaching a month (visiting a couple families to check on their needs and share a short inspiring message). Other than that, most members have callings that require anywhere from a one-hour lesson every 2-4 weeks during church to weekly responsibilities with youth groups. Members of the bishopric, the elder's quorum presidency, and the relief society presidency will be busier, but that totals nine people in the ward, which are usually 150-300 people.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  No day will pass without a church related responsibility or demand.

Completely false. Not even the bishop has zero free days in a given week.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Your family will join you in this conscription, even when your children are very small.

Oh, it's a conscription? This is still false. The busiest callings in a ward are not callings that require or even really support having the whole family around.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  4. You will never be "worthy" or "good enough" in any genuine sense.

This is the Kimball/McConkie soteriology, but it's the old regime and it's a position I and most contemporary members of the Church reject. One of the first books I read as a Latter-day Saint was Believing Christ, which directly combats your characterization of the Church. I have encouraged all members I've known who have struggled with questions of self-worth (largely because they grew up in authoritarian Kimball/McConkie-oriented families) to read that book. My wife and I are fierce opponents of a lot of the worthiness rhetoric that characterized pre-2000 Latter-day Saint ideology.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  You will always be striving for some church related privilege, while simultaneously suffering punishment for your supposed "unworthiness". You will experience the exhaustion and misery of being an emotional "hamster on the wheel".

While this certainly happens, it's not nearly as prominent as you seem to think.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  5. You will never have any privacy, even in your own mind. The church demands that you confess any and all "sins" verbally to your local bishop. These crimes include thought crimes, such as thinking "impure" sexual thoughts.

Completely and totally false. There is no regimented or standardized confessional in the LDS Church. Only what are considered serious transgressions are thought to require confession to a bishop. There is no such thing in the Latter-day Saint worldview as a "thought crime," and "impure sexual thoughts" are not considered sinful. Acting upon them, provided they're improper according to the Church's standards, is what is considered sinful, and even then, only those considered more serious require confession.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  6. You will never think for yourself again.

Pure rubbish. When I first joined the Church I started going to institute in Dallas, and something that has always undergirded my own education in the Church was a big prominent sign in the middle of the classroom wall that said "Find Out For Yourself." We were encouraged to read and study on our own, and to think for ourselves.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Any and all issues can be resolved by consulting the church. They will provide you with what you are "supposed" to believe whenever you happen to need that information. The church is always a higher priority than you are.

A ludicrous mischaracterization.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  7. You will pay 10% of all the money you make for the rest of your life, or you will not be considered "worthy" before god. You will be punished and your membership and participation will be restricted until you pay up. You have no authority to claim that this is unreasonable, since you would be rebelling against "Almighty God".

"Punished" is a bit of a misrepresentation. Not paying tithing really just means no temple recommend, and whether or not you have that is a private matter that's no publicized by anyone but the individuals themselves. I have multiple friends who openly oppose tithing, and they've never had any kind of disciplinary actions whatsoever taken against them.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  8. You will surrender your right to be sexual being. You will be demonized and shamed as a perverse and disgusting creature for your innate sexual desires.

Untrue. While my own position on individual sexuality differs in many ways from the Church's official position, they recognize that sexual desire is a perfectly natural and intended consequence of the human experience, and that having them is in no way a sin. The Church opposes the practice of homosexuality, and is a fierce opponent of same-sex marriage, but even they recognize that it is a function of biological makeup, and they insist that merely having those innate sexual desires is nothing of which to be guilty or ashamed. The Church has even backed off of their firm stance against masturbation.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  You will be simultaneously told that sex is wonderful and godly, making your natural desire to profane it all the worse. You will be surrendering the ability to decide what goes on in your bedroom, literally. Any and all sexual practices other than heterosexual vaginal intercourse are considered immoral and are forbidden.

Not totally true. While homosexual sex is certainly and explicitly forbidden by the Church, the Church also prohibits leaders from making pronouncements about what is and is not allowed in the bedroom between married couples. Those are decisions left to the couples, and leaders are not allowed to ask questions or make declarations about it.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  You will surrender your freedom to have sex at all if you are unmarried, including masturbation. Use of pornography is forbidden and will be considered an addiction, regardless of how often you use it. You will never be entirely free of the stigma within the church if you are caught viewing it.

While pornography is certainly opposed vehemently by the Church, there is no eternal stigma associated with it and it would never become public knowledge unless the individuals themselves publicized it. Latter-day Saints invest heavily in the principles of repentance and forgiveness.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  9. You will be required to give testimony of the principles of the church, before you have tested them or even learned all of them. You will become comfortable with the idea that the church owes you nothing, and will only give you all the doctrine on a provisional basis. Your "worthiness" and hard work earn you the right to actually learn the doctrine you have already been required to embrace. You will sign on a dotted line without being told everything up front.

Well, beyond the impossibility of teaching anyone the fullness of LDS ideology in an order and efficient manner (even you seem quite underinformed when it comes to actual doctrine), no religious tradition attempts to tell proselytes "everything up front." The fundamentals are taught. The minutiae are learned through the living of the lifestyle. What you perceive to be historical infelicities and lies are almost without exception more complex issues that confuse people more than they illuminate anything. I'm not going to waste time bringing up Smith's 1826 hearing and explaining all the reasons that the Neely and De Zeng bills show Smith was never actually convicted of anything. There's no point.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  10. You will be taught an openly censored version of the history of Mormonism.

Meh. More like a "Greatest Hits" history.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Some information will be changed, erased, or entirely omitted.

That's an overstatement, although I have long been an advocate for more open and accessible historical data, and that's been the trend the last couple years. You can now, for instance, access hi-res photos of all the Kirtland Egyptian Papers on a Church website.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  If you discover these tampered parts of the history on your own, you will be openly stonewalled and even punished severely for trying to do anything with that information. Your membership and associated benefits are only available to you if you remain in line at all times.

That's not true. You can be ecclesiastically "punished" if you openly and publicly oppose Church leadership regarding the fundamental tenets of Joseph Smith's calling, the inspired nature of the Book of Mormon, and the priesthood authority of contemporary leadership, but even then you've got to be pretty adamant about it.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  11. You will be required to indoctrinate your children from the absolute earliest moments of their lives. Even as young as under a year they will be taught in "Nursery",

Nursery starts at 18 months.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  a church program designed to use food and cartoons to teach them Mormon doctrine. I do NOT exaggerate in any way when I say that mere infants attend these meetings, without their parent's supervision, since they are required to attend other classes elsewhere.

It's a nursery. The whole point is to provide childcare service while the parents are elsewhere.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  They do so until they gain enough speech ability to go to another class. They will attend this program for an hour every Sunday, every single week. That is only the beginning. They will not have a chance to choose their own values, not until adulthood has set in, and their entire life is made up of Mormon experience.

How dare parents teach their values to their children. Everyone knows toddlers and pre-adolescents make better decisions when they're left alone, right?

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  12. If you are a woman, you will be treated as unequal and less important than a man. You will be denied possession of priesthood authority. You will be unable to fill the majority of church positions. You will be given standards of dress that the Amish would most surely approve of. You will be taught that your body is a temptation for men, and it is your responsibility to keep them strong by covering it up, and dulling your own sexual nature. You will be taught that your main, and ideally only, purpose is to bear and raise children "in the faith". Motherhood is given practically holy status congruent with that of the famous "Virgin Mary".

While much of this is a rhetorical exaggeration, I agree that the Church's position on women is outdated and potentially harmful. This is another area where my family and I are fighting for enlightenment.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Young women are discouraged from seeking out an education or career.

Not true. It may have been true in the mid-twentieth century, but these days women are encouraged to get an education and move toward careers. The Church, for instance, has many, many women in positions throughout the different levels of its organization.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Instead, they are encouraged to marry and have children while still very young. Even when on occasion, women are encouraged to achieve an education, it is openly stated that this should only be a "back up plan" in case her husband is made unable to work at some point in the future. Your importance as a woman in the church is expressed only in terms of "support" for your husband, along with the church in general. Your diminished position will not ever be reconsidered, not even if you have no husband to represent you or provide priesthood authority in your home. Let single mother's beware, the only thing Mormonism has to offer them is more work to do, and 10% less income for them and their children.

This portion is flatly false. While many of the family values the Church promotes have the side effect of marginalizing single adults, they also make a concerted effort to combat that with a lot of activities and literature aimed directly at them.

(14-01-2014 08:27 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Basically, slam your door when the Mormons come calling. Don't listen for even a moment.

Well, if you're an atheist you're going to reject the message outright, but while there are a few valid and serious points in the above, the majority of it is an etic, antagonistic, and misleading caricature of the LDS Church.

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15-01-2014, 08:09 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(15-01-2014 04:41 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Is it true that you people dont dance?

Because we can dance when we want to
we can leave your friends behind
because your friends dont dance
and if they dont dance
then they aint no friends of mine

No, that's not true. The Church actually regularly sponsors dances for youth and young adults.

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15-01-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(14-01-2014 10:58 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  What is the position of the church, or the content of the church doctrine, on the subject of black people, their skin, it's origin or meaning?

See the following article:

http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-p...d?lang=eng

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