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20-10-2013, 08:12 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
How many times do you have to tell your wives you have to go out? Where you going, out. Where u going? Out where you going? Out wtf. Ugh. Dint mind me, so plasterd

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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20-10-2013, 08:25 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
Mormonism and all religion in general has taught me that a child can be raised to believe anything.

I'm glad you're out of it. I have no questions.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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20-10-2013, 11:02 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(20-10-2013 04:21 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I just want to thank you for taking the time to answer questions. I've learned some things I didn't know!

As I read the answers it got me wondering if in a few hundred years from now, people won't be discussing the flying spaghetti monster in a similar way.

Clearly the Mormon 'faith' started with Smith and a bit of crazy. Kinda like Saul of Tarsus brand of crazy.

Now there's lots of Mormons...

Just a dijointed moment of musing.

Your're welcome. I really enjoy talking about Mormonism, and answering questions.

Fortunately people on this forum are highly skilled at asking interesting questions.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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20-10-2013, 11:18 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(20-10-2013 04:48 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  1) How do Mormons rationalize the fact that Joseph Smith was a convicted con man? How is his credibility not called into question, and if so, how has the credibility been called into question?

2) why can't non-Mormons enter the temple? Ex: if a non-Mormon marries a Mormon, the non mormon's family cannot witness the marriage. Why alienate families that way?

1) Most of the Mormons I know believe that Joseph Smith was convicted as a result of religious and political hatred. It was a tight knit community and they write it off as being retribution for Joseph claiming to have seen God.

Essentially, they think the members of the jury lied to convict Joseph, or did so because of prejudice.

This line of reasoning makes a little bit of sense, but was utterly disproved when the trial documents were uncovered. Joseph confessed to being a disorderly person, as well as successfully defrauding local citizens with mad gold digging expeditions.

This particular subject is difficult to discuss with members. When I learned the story as a young man I asked about it immediately, since I was greatly concerned. If Joseph was a convicted con man, it follows he could have made his angelic appearances up as well. I was instantly met with criticism for having little faith, as well as for asking such prying and audacious questions. I was very young, and couldn't stand up to being shamed, so I stopped asking. It was only the maturity with age that led me to maintain my skeptical attitude.

I suspect the faithful realize their vulnerable position when it comes to faith in Joseph, so rather than answer me honestly, they shamed me so that they wouldn't have to question it themselves.

2) The wedding ceremony that occurs in a Mormon temple is not akin to a regular marriage. It is called a "Sealing". This refers to the process of using priesthood authority to bind a couple together in this life, and all eternity. Without this ceremony, the Mormons believe death will separate one from his or her spouse, and nullify their lifetime commitment to one another.

If the sealing is performed on a converted couple with children, the children are included in the binding, and are sealed for time and all eternity to their parents.

If a couple is sealed and raises children in the church, their children are considered already sealed to them by god.

The ordinance of sealing is considered both secret and sacred. Only those who have made binding commitments to god are permitted to even witness it. Most couples bring only their closest and dearest family members to the sealing, provided they are worthy.

The worthiness of any member to obtain what is known as a "Temple Recommend" or "Pass" in order to enter the temple, is determined by a Bishop through an interview process. The Bishop will ask the member questions about his faith, and his actions. If the answers are favorable, he is made temple worthy officially. This pass lasts for only a few years before it must be renewed in the same fashion.

I received many of these official interviews myself and can recall a few of the most important questions.

1. Do you believe? (In the church, god, jesus, etc...)

2. Do you have faith?

3. Do you pay your tithing to the church?

4. Are you honest with your fellow man?

5. Do you read the scriptures and pray often?

6. Do you keep the law of chastity?

7. Is your language clean?

8. Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

9. Do you repent of your sins and ask god for forgiveness?

You get the idea.

In my experience the church is not overly concerned with the splitting up of families. As long as someone is being married within the walls of the temple, they would prefer to have it that way. The family of one individual or the other is no problem since they will be dispatching missionaries and "Home Teachers" to attempt conversion as soon as possible. If the church knows who you are, they will continue to try and convert you, until either they succeed or you drastically protest.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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20-10-2013, 11:22 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
Is it true that Mormons practice proxy baptism and if it is then for what purpose?

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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20-10-2013, 11:25 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
What I mean is, if there is proxy baptism and you have this buddy who was most likely floating out in the cold sad place you were talking about, if you get baptized for him what good does it do him? Will he be bumped up to a less miserable realm or even a kingdom? Will he have to hang out until you die and then get bumped to wherever you end up?

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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20-10-2013, 11:36 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(20-10-2013 05:07 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Is it true that Mormons when baptized are also baptized for some poor dead person who was not Mormon? If so, what is the purpose of this?

That is true. The doctrine is officially called "Baptism for the Dead".

Baptism for the Dead is a sacred temple ordinance performed in the basement of a temple. It is a unique temple ordinance since you can participate without being endowed as an adult. A young person of 12 or older, after being cleared with a temple recommend by a Bishop, can be baptized for the soul of a dead person.

All religions must deal with the following question. "What about all the people who died never knowing the gospel? What is to become of them?" Mormons answer this splendidly by acknowledging that this is not the fault of the deceased that they missed out on the action in life.

The church works tirelessly to discover names from the distant past, so that they may be sent to a temple and baptized into the church. Many famous people have been retroactively baptized in this way, such as Hitler, George Washingtom, and a large number of known holocaust victims.

I once wondered "What about all those names which have been lost in the fabric of time? There were millions of Romans alone who's names we will never know." The Mormons answer this with the pronouncement that when Jesus Christ comes again and rules the world, he will reveal these lost names with his limitless power, and begin immediate ordinances for them all. It will be his great work on earth in a time known as "The Millennium".

Mormons believe that this ordinance is not immediately put into effect upon its completion, rather the person in the afterlife receiving the ordinance in their name, must choose to accept it. If they refuse the ordinance in their second life, it is null and void.

Many families expressed outrage towards the church for its proactive baptism of the dead, thinking that their ancestors were being turned Mormon against their will. This is not so. The Mormons believe that each ancestor must choose for themselves.

I was baptized for a number of my own ancestors in this way. I wore the white jumpsuits made from clean linen. My feet were bare on a pure stone floor leading to the baptismal font in the center of the room.

This very large stone bowl of water is resting a top the backs of 12 brass oxen. They represent the 12 tribes of Israel. The water itself represents purity and repentance. It is a reminder that we can be washed clean at any moment through the blood of Christ.

I was completely immersed in the water at least 40 times in quick succession. A short written phrase of respect was repeated by the officiant each time, along with the name of the recipient for whom I would be baptized.

This information is considered secret by the church. Were I still a a member and they discovered this forum post, I would be excommunicated immediately.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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20-10-2013, 11:45 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(20-10-2013 11:25 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  What I mean is, if there is proxy baptism and you have this buddy who was most likely floating out in the cold sad place you were talking about, if you get baptized for him what good does it do him? Will he be bumped up to a less miserable realm or even a kingdom? Will he have to hang out until you die and then get bumped to wherever you end up?

The Mormons believe that no soul is deposited in Outer Darkness, or any other kingdom until "The Day of Judgement". This day will not occur until all of god's children have lived and died.

For those who have died, but still await the death of all others who yet live, there are two places in which they can stay. Think of it as a sort Mormon limbo.

The first is called "Spirit Paradise" and it is a place of sunlight, laughter, and peace.

The second is called "Spirit Prison" and it is a place of sadness, guilt, and pain.

Spirit Paradise is reserved for those who are members of the church who were faithful, or those were were non-members but were likewise full of goodness and virtue.

Spirit Prison is the automatic destination of all others.

"The Doctrine and Covenants" describes the Spirit Prison as a place where many angelic missionaries will go to preach the gospel to those who did not have an opportunity to hear it while living. The souls in Spirit Paradise agree to preach to their less fortunate comrades.

Spirit Prison is the location souls will patiently await their temple ordinances to be completed by the living, so they can travel to Spirit Paradise and live happily before judgement day. No ordinances, no passage.

When all souls have died, and have heard the gospel at least once, judgement day will be at hand. It is only by the judgement of god on that particular day that a soul can be flung into Outer Darkness to suffer endless agony with the devil and his angels.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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21-10-2013, 12:03 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(20-10-2013 11:36 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Many families expressed outrage towards the church for its proactive baptism of the dead, thinking that their ancestors were being turned Mormon against their will. This is not so. The Mormons believe that each ancestor must choose for themselves.

I am stuck on this because a part of me thinks, how rude would it be to baptise someone without their permission. Mostly though, I just think it is really silly that someone who is not even Mormon would believe that a dead person could be turned Mormon against their will.
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21-10-2013, 12:08 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(20-10-2013 05:25 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  of people living today, who ( if any) is a recognized prophet within LDS?

The current "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" of the LDS Church is Thomas S. Monson.

I am not an expert on his life, so here is a Wiki link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_S._Monson

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Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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