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22-10-2013, 12:10 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(22-10-2013 12:02 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 02:15 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well every religion is batshit crazy to one degree or another, but yeah I knew a little bit about base doctrines because when I was younger I got a copy of the Book of Mormon from some missionaries. I know most people hate being bothered but I like talking religion. Too bad after they gave me the book the follow up visit I scared them off by grilling them about their metaphysics never heard from em again.

Have you ever read the Book of Mormon all the way through? It is definitely worth the read. It is a fascinating book. If you get the chance, I would thoroughly recommend it.

It is the most incredible fraudulent creation that I have ever seen. It's complexity rivals that of the Bible itself.

This was when I was 16 and yes I did read the whole thing then. It was not very inspired or inspiring to me. And so it came to pass... Do you think he could have stuck that phrase in a few more times. Having read the KJB not long before that it paled in comparison.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-10-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(22-10-2013 06:58 AM)sporehux Wrote:  "...after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations." (I Nephi 12:23)

"...Behold, they had hardened their hearts against him...wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticingunto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their sins." (2 Nephi 5:21-22)

"...the Lord shall curse the land with much heat...and there was a blackness (2) came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people." (Moses 7:8)

"And Enoch also beheld ...the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it were the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not a place among them." (Moses 7:22)

Thank you for putting together this selection of quotes. These are all accurate. 1st and 2nd Nephi are the first two books in the Book of Mormon. Like the Bible, the Book of Mormon is not one book, but is a conglomeration of books from many different scholars and prophets. The only difference is that the ones in the Book of Mormon are much easier to prove as fiction.

Nephi was the son of Lehi, a Jewish Prophet who taught in Jerusalem around the same time as Jeremiah from the Old Testament. Lehi and his family were inspired by god to leave Jerusalem and flee into the desert to escape the impending destruction of the city by the Babylonians.

In both of his books, Nephi chronicles their adventures in the wilderness, the crossing of the ocean to the new world, and the subsequent building of a new nation in the Americas.

The Book of Moses is a selection from the Pear of Great Price, the same book which also has The Book of Abraham within it.

The Book of Moses is essentially an alteration, or clarification, of The Book of Genesis in the King James Bible. It explains creation in more detail, as well as god's relationship with Moses.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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22-10-2013, 12:17 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(22-10-2013 12:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This was when I was 16 and yes I did read the whole thing then. It was not very inspired or inspiring to me. And so it came to pass... Do you think he could have stuck that phrase in a few more times. Having read the KJB not long before that it paled in comparison.

Congratulations upon finishing the book. It isn't an easy read, but is definitely worth the time and effort. Well done on reading the King James Bible as well. That is a far more difficult read, by virtue of being a lot longer and more convoluted. Well done.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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22-10-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(22-10-2013 12:17 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 12:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This was when I was 16 and yes I did read the whole thing then. It was not very inspired or inspiring to me. And so it came to pass... Do you think he could have stuck that phrase in a few more times. Having read the KJB not long before that it paled in comparison.

Congratulations upon finishing the book. It isn't an easy read, but is definitely worth the time and effort. Well done on reading the King James Bible as well. That is a far more difficult read, by virtue of being a lot longer and more convoluted. Well done.

I was going through a long seeking phase at that time. I grew up in a "liberal" baptist church (even now that sounds contradictory but I live in a weird area) and I had doubts early. By the age of 10 I had major problems with most of the stories. So to compensate I educated myself read the whole bible, the book of Mormon, some eastern stuff (The Tau of Bruce Lee is a good read even if you don't buy the metaphysics) never bothered with Islam cause I saw it as just an extension of a system I already found major faults with. I went through a phase where I thought maybe everyone had a bit of truth (the parable of the elephant) eventually settling into weak agnostic atheist up til a few years ago when I started reading the "New Atheists" now I consider myself about a 9.9 on the Dawkins scale.

As for reading the bible if you're going to do it read the King James version. That way you get the poetic language of Shakespeare and not just a bloody bronze age fairy tale. For most people reading that beast once is more than enough so might as well get the most bang for your buck as it were.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-10-2013, 12:41 PM (This post was last modified: 22-10-2013 01:21 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Ask a Mormon
(22-10-2013 12:31 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  eventually settling into weak agnostic atheist up til a few years ago when I started reading the "New Atheists" now I consider myself about a 9.9 on the Dawkins scale.

Up until very recently I was firmly an Agnostic, and thought Dawkins was too confrontational.
Now I feel like I can't be a passive observer to the rise of stupidity (ray comfort).
If there are aliens and they ever visit earth, how fraking embarrassing will it be if humans still have imaginary friends.

Just stumbled on this
[Image: original.jpg]

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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30-10-2013, 04:39 PM
The History of Mormonism 1 A Childhood Surgery
It has been my desire for some time now to write a comprehensive history of the Mormon religion designed to inform non-members. It is a subject I have studied long and hard in my youth, against my will, so I am determined to get some use out of it. At the very least it can offer me an opportunity to practice my writing, and give someone else the opportunity to learn about Mormonism. I hope some one finds this stuff interesting.

The Mormon story began with a young boy born in Sharon, Vermont. Joseph Smith is perhaps the most successful American prophet ever to live, and is responsible for founding "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints".

Joseph was born to Lucy Mack, and Joseph Smith Sr. He spent his youth living and working on the family farm in Palmyra, New York.

At the age of seven, Joseph suffered an intensely painful infection of the bone in one of his legs. Soon the agony was strong enough to keep him from his work, as well as off of his feet. In a stroke of extraordinary luck, Joseph Smith Sr. was able to locate a physician who was willing to attempt a surgery to remove the infection. All other doctors available suggested amputation of little Joseph's leg.

Many days passed while they waited for the doctor to travel the many miles necessary to arrive in Palmyra. During this time, Joseph was violently feverish all through each night. His older brother Hyrum, who would be his life long friend and ally, sat by his bed all night, holding his hand and talking to him. Hyrum would always be found asleep in this position. He remained in this pattern each night, until the doctor arrived.

Upon inspecting Joseph's leg, the doctor warned Joseph's parents that the surgery was experimental and could easily fail to restore Joseph's leg. In the worst case scenario, he would have to amputate the leg. Upon agreeing to these terms, the parents and doctor turned to Joseph in order to explain to him what would happen next.

Once Joseph understood, he was afraid, and asked how much it would hurt. The doctor told him that it would be excruciating, perhaps unbearable, without an anesthetic. He extended a bottle of whiskey to little Joseph, telling him to have a few good swigs. To the astonishment of all, Joseph refused. He famously said "I ask only that my father hold me. Then, I will be fine." Greatly concerned, the doctor tried again to get Joseph to drink from the bottle of whiskey, but was once again met with flat refusal.

Once Joseph was held by his father, and a piece of leather was placed between his teeth, the surgery began. In her journal, Lucy Mack Smith wrote that Joseph begged her to leave the room and go into the nearest field, since he could not bear to have her witness his surgery. She reluctantly did so, but was drawn back into the room in tears upon hearing his desperate screams of agony. She vividly describes the splatters of blood upon the doctor, her son, and her husband. His face as white as a sheet, her son begged her to go out again. With a violent sob, she did so.

The surgery was a huge success, and Joseph suffered only a lame leg for three years. He walked with crutches during that time, and a slight limp for the rest of his life. Is it noteworthy that his limping never so much as slowed him down. He was well known for being physically fit, and very vigorous.

Long after Joseph declared himself a prophet, this story from his childhood was carefully researched. Researchers discovered that the doctor responsible for the surgery was the only doctor in America with the tools or the skill to perform the operation. His tools were designed and constructed by his own hand, as well as the technique which he pioneered. The removal of the infected bone in this fashion became the new standard procedure, allowing for patients to keep their limbs. This was the case until more modern methods were discovered in later years.

It is standard in the church for members to claim that this was due to god's plan to help Joseph, and not just a very lucky coincidence.

Joseph's refusal of the whisky is a commonly revered part of the story. Even as a child, he abhorred liquor, which he would later condemn in his "Word of Wisdom" doctrine. Historians suspect he refused the alcohol as a direct result of his parent's teaching their particular brand of the Christian Religion, which forbade alcohol in that region.

I often heard it said in church, that this experience was meant for Joseph to gain strength and character, that god was testing his resolve.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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30-10-2013, 04:47 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
Do Mormons attribute some kind of super-goodness to Joseph Smith's parents similar to Jesus and Mary's special status ?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-10-2013, 08:39 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
I thought the Mormons had admitted that Pre-faith Joseph Smith was a scumbag fraud, but was used by god/s as an instrument for enlightenment. thus redeeming him self.
so his parents should be unimportant.
my Mormon education comes from comic satire admittedly.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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31-10-2013, 06:32 PM
RE: Ask a Mormon
Ah, so no accolades to the doctor. It was gods work, typical

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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01-11-2013, 12:02 AM
RE: Ask a Mormon
(30-10-2013 04:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  Do Mormons attribute some kind of super-goodness to Joseph Smith's parents similar to Jesus and Mary's special status ?

No. There is no worship of Joseph's parents, not even a general consensus on their goodness.

I have often heard Joseph Sr. being criticized for being so lacking in faith, since he reportedly refused to join any church. Apparently, after a careful reading of the Bible, he decided that no existing religion was true. He professed a nebulous Christianity until his son published The Book of Mormon, and gave him a copy. After a another careful reading, he was a Mormon for the rest of his life.

Lucy Mack Smith wrote a very detailed journal which is a fascinating read.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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