Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 5 Votes - 4.2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-09-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
Do you have any empirical, scientific, evidence for your belief?

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-09-2012, 07:57 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2012 08:00 PM by Internet Mullah.)
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
(06-09-2012 05:47 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Do you have any empirical, scientific, evidence for your belief?

No.

In fact, I don't think there is scientific/empirical evidence for any religion. If I knew of any, then I could just easily post the evidence in this thread and then I wouldn't even have to debate and explain all these other things that I've been talking about. Yes, there are some Muslims who do use certain verses from the Quran to argue that those are scientific evidence for the Quran's divinity. However, I don't think that those count as scientific evidence. Those are just arguments which further strengthen the likelihood of the Quran having a divine source, but not evidence (in the sense that you're speaking of).

What needs to be understood is that there is a difference between a "rational argument" and "evidence." Not all rational arguments can be used as evidence for proving something true, but all evidence can be used as rational arguments (for proving something true). That's an important distinction everyone should be aware of.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Internet Mullah's post
08-09-2012, 09:19 PM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
Why do you hate infidels, especially Jews?
Do you think the entire middle east is stuck in the middle ages? And if so, cuz it is, do you think Islam to blame for this?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-09-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
(08-09-2012 09:19 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Why do you hate infidels, especially Jews?
Do you think the entire middle east is stuck in the middle ages? And if so, cuz it is, do you think Islam to blame for this?

I think your first question is just a little bit off.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-09-2012, 01:44 AM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
Quote:this Idea of "a Man feeling like a Woman" is a Self induced un-natural sickness, which Islam has zero tolerance for.

Is that true that Islam basically makes transgender people sick unable to undergo a sex change operation?

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-09-2012, 05:55 AM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
(06-09-2012 07:57 PM)Internet Mullah Wrote:  
(06-09-2012 05:47 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Do you have any empirical, scientific, evidence for your belief?
No.
Then why is it that you base your entire life on a belief for which you have no evidence at all?

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Vosur's post
10-09-2012, 09:27 PM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2012 10:04 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
(06-09-2012 11:05 AM)Internet Mullah Wrote:  The first and most important thing to understand about this, Bucky Ball, is that "Allah" is merely the Arabic word for God. The claim that Allah was a "moon god" is simply a Christian anti-Muslim propaganda or a lie. This propaganda started to spread since the demise of Christian polemicist Robert Morey, and been polished on by other Christian missionaries as well (such as Robert Spencer more recently), but the fact is that their claims have been thoroughly refuted by academics in the field of archaeology and even by the explicit statements of the Quran itself. They're fighting a losing battle, and so the "moon god" theory is only one of the most recent of their many failed attempts to disparage Muslims and their religion.

Although there is little doubt about the existence of moon gods worshiped in Arabia before and during Muhammad's time, there are several weaknesses with identifying this moon god with Allah. Hubal, Illat, Ta'lab, Wadd, Amm, and Sin were the Moon gods of ancient Arabian mythology, but the name "Allah" has nothing to do with the moon. In fact, Muhammad initially adopted the term "Allah" as it was used by the Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians of his day for referring to the God of the Bible. The Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians used the term Allah for God even long before the time of Muhammad. This is known based on textual, lexical, historical, and theological sources.

"Elah" is the hebrew word for God, and the Aramaic equivalent of it is "Alaha,", taken from the Biblical Aramaic "Elaha" - and since Arabic is a sister language of the two languages - Allah is the Arabic cognate of the Aramaic word "Alaha." Given the prevalence of Judaism and Christianity in Arabia, the name "Alaha" would have been well-known and one would expect them to have Arabicized it by dropping the final "a" vowel. Also, you'll see that the words "Elah," "Eloah," and "Alaha" appear in many places in the Tanakh (Jewish canon) such as in the books Ezra, Daniel, and Jeremiah when referring to the god of the Jews. These names are etymologically related to Allah.

For clarification, here is a Yemeni Jew who speaks Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic confirming himself that Allah is not the name of a moon god, but merely the Arabic form of a Hebrew word for God, and that the associations that ignorant Christians try to make linguistically to "prove" that "Allah" is the name of a moon god is not only false, but also unwittingly condemns the same Hebrew god they claim to worship.

The Quran itself affirms that the Islamic god is the same as the Judeo-Christian one. And the word used for God is "Allah." Over twenty prophets of Allah are mentioned in the Quran, each corresponding to a prophet in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Muslims have always believed that they worship the same God as the God of the Bible. They believe in the God of Israel, whom the Jews believed in, and whom the Christians referred to as the Father. The Quran says:

"Do not argue with the People of the Book [the Jews and Christians] except in the kindest possible manner, save those of them who are oppressive, and say: “We believe in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to you; our God and your God are one and the same, and to Him do we submit ourselves.” (Quran, 29:46)

Here are some other verses in the Quran which certainly imply that Allah is not just a moon god:

One of the signs of the Judgment Day is the splitting of the moon (Quran 54:01); Allah created the moon with the rest of the heavens, and the moon's purpose is to help us tell time (Quran 6:96) and to be a beautiful light (Quran 10:05); Allah has authority over it as well as everything else in the heavens (Quran 7:54); Those who worship the sun, moon, and/or idols will be the inhabitants of Hell. Allah strictly forbid us from worshipping the sun, moon, nor anything except Himself (Quran 41:37); Allah is the creator of everything (Quran 6:102); And the moon will last only for an appointed time (Quran 13:2, 31:29) but Allah is eternal (Quran 3:02).

Robert Morey, as I mentioned earlier, was a Christian polemicist and he was the first to invent the moon god theory of Allah. But, not surprisingly, his theory has been proven to be just a shoddy work of pseudo-scholarship and none of his archeological findings signify that Allah was a moon god. Upon close examination, it will be observed that on numerous occasions Morey has resorted to suppression of evidence, forgery, deception, and deliberate misquotation in an attempt to prove that Allah was a moon god. But, again, it was an embarrassing and a paltry attempt, and there is also a very long and thorough refutation of Morey's moon god arguments which you can read about in this article. So, bring any evidence that Allah was a moon god, and I will heartily explain to you in specific details why that is not correct.

Morey and other Christians of his type will just try to mislead or confuse the average, non-academic audiences about Islam. That's why you have to take the time to research such topics, brother. You cannot take the word "Allah" and just throw it around as if it's a piece of play-dough, molding and hurling upon it whatever criticism you wish to lay at the feet of Muslims at any particular time.

Sorry, this doesn't cut it, at all. There is no way Mohamed could have possibly known the origins and historical development of Yahweh from the Sumerian myth systems, (the 70th son of El Elyon), as this was not known to archaeology until the 1850's, when the ancient sites were found, (Nineveh/Ashurbanipal). Mohamed just stated, in total ignorance, that they were the same god, without an ounce of knowledge of what he was asserting. Yahweh Sabaoth was the god of the armies, (Lord of Hosts), and did not become "THE" monotheistic god of the Hebrews until around 500-600 BCE, when King Josiah and 2nd Isaiah insisted they stop worshiping their other gods. Mohamed had NO way of knowing that, as it was discovered in modern times. Show us the money. Where EXACTLY, and how does the archaeology refute the moon-god theory ? The Qur'an is a faith text, and is worthless, in terms of "history". It refutes nothing. Mohamed cooked it up, just as Christians cooked up the gospels. So do Muslims worship also Yahweh's wife, (Ashura) ?

Show me ONE place Jews used the term "Allah". "Elah" is NOT the Hebrew word for god. Elah is a PLACE, in Edom, (which is one of the sources of the Javeh god, which was conflated with the word Yahweh). Javeh was the Edomite mountain god, so, you're not helping your argument here, at all. As far as "condemning" the same god...you're damn right it does. That what I said. If Yahweh is a crock, so is Allah. We know exactly where and when Yahweh came from. I could care less what a Yemeni Jew says. He's as deluded as you are.

(06-09-2012 05:47 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Do you have any empirical, scientific, evidence for your belief?


(06-09-2012 11:05 AM)Internet Mullah Wrote:  No.

In fact, I don't think there is scientific/empirical evidence for any religion. If I knew of any, then I could just easily post the evidence in this thread and then I wouldn't even have to debate and explain all these other things that I've been talking about. Yes, there are some Muslims who do use certain verses from the Quran to argue that those are scientific evidence for the Quran's divinity. However, I don't think that those count as scientific evidence. Those are just arguments which further strengthen the likelihood of the Quran having a divine source, but not evidence (in the sense that you're speaking of).

If the answer is "no" why did you lie to me about the historical and archaeological evidence ? The Qur'an proves nothing. A human being wrote every word in it, and then claimed it had a divine origin. No "scripture" can claim any "authority", unless you can PROVE it did not have human origins. You can't. You believe because you want to believe, the ULTIMATE circular thinking. You say you believe because the Qur'an tell you something. Why do you believe the Qur'an tells you the truth ? Because you say you believe in it. So you believe because you believe. Real smart there dude, real smart.

So I have discovered your lame explanation of the moon-god thing is entirely false, and some really serious mainline scholars have weighed in on the matter.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/islam.htm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
11-09-2012, 10:52 PM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
Why are the Islamic people so pissy about drawing of Muhammad? :/

(Some guy in California made a movie featuring him and muslims stormed the Libian and Egyption U.S. Emmbassies killing a diplomat and burning stuff. I mean, wtf.)

[Image: hecf-1.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-09-2012, 11:08 PM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
(11-09-2012 10:52 PM)hawkeyecf Wrote:  Why are the Islamic people so pissy about drawing of Muhammad? :/

(Some guy in California made a movie featuring him and muslims stormed the Libian and Egyption U.S. Emmbassies killing a diplomat and burning stuff. I mean, wtf.)

I do not get that. They're saying that they "humiliated Mohamed", ("peace by upon him") Say what ? I thought the Prophet, ("peace be upon him") was in heaven. If he's really in heaven, then WTF does he care what goes on here ? If he's subject to humilation after he's dead, they're in BIG trouble, ("peace be upon them") Cough cough.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Bucky Ball's post
13-09-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
(09-09-2012 05:55 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Then why is it that you base your entire life on a belief for which you have no evidence at all?

Well, a belief does not necessarily require evidence, and what is "evidence" to one person may not be evidence to another person because I think that there are different degrees of evidence and it can be subjective sometimes. For example, evidence can mean something like "absolute verification of something, impossible to deny." or it can also mean "persuasive evidence (i.e. by means of rational arguments) though not necessarily infallible" If you use the word evidence in the former sense, then no, I don't have any evidence my beliefs. If you the word evidence in the latter sense, then yes, I have evidence for my beliefs and I've discussed them many times in this thread so far. But, you may not accept them as evidence at all because it is an internal or a subjective type of evidence. It's not something that you can see or touch right in front of you.

Going back to the original sources and time period in history when Islam was revealed, I learned that it presents a very simple concept: That there is only one God who is the source of everything and that He has created mankind as His representatives on earth for the purpose of growing through learning and experience into righteous individuals, and to assist mankind is achieving this goal, there are the messengers and scriptures revealed to us which all command us to submit to the will of God. That is the fundamental theme of the Quran. And this is something that I find to be very consistent, rational, and meaningful in my life.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: