Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
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28-04-2012, 04:47 AM
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions]
Firstly, thanks for the responses.
(28-04-2012 03:39 AM)Internet Mullah Wrote:  I do not think that Allah is a massive dick toward non-believers, but He simply does what He thinks is right, and He will give everyone what they deserve according to His Law. We believe that Allah is merciful and compassionate, but not toward everyone all the time, because He will also reveal his displeasure toward the non-believers because of their disbelief. But, when a non-believer converts to Islam and repents to Allah, the Quran says that all his sins will be forgiven. So, this means that even the non-believers are open to receive His mercy any time. In an authentic hadith, it says that Allah's mercy is greater than His wrath/anger:

"When Allah decreed the Creation He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: 'My mercy prevails over my wrath.'" - Hadith Qudsi
Why should he be angry at someone even though he's created them that way? (assuming he actually exists) plus some Muslims I know don't think they have free will because god is all knowing so the future is set in stone. (which does have problems for evil caused by humans) Yet, the Quran does appear very violent towards them... how is that merciful? and how can you have mercy the same time as justice? The two concepts don't make sense together.

Quote:That is not true, in my opinion, because context is equally important for every verse in the Quran.

Why is it so important? Because it helps to understand the entire Quran better if you know the historical circumstances in which the verses were revealed. At the same time, we should also try to refer to tafseers (or commentaries) of the Quran written by scholars and those who are knowledgeable about the book because they contain many information that we may not know such as the meaning of certain words, the use of figurative language, the circumstances in which a verse was revealed, the historical context behind them, and other related aspects of the Quran. Knowing those things will help us to better understand the meanings behind the verses. Indeed, the Quran says what it means and means what it says, but again, the extraction of meaning is always a matter of interpretation.
Well that's nice isn't it?

I've had the commentaries recommended to me by someone because I said that I had started reading the Quran. But I don't have time for that. Not many people do. Things based on that level of interpretation lose validity quickly. And rightfully so. How do you see that as a good thing?

It seems to me that the only way to prove god is to assume he exists in the first place. For example, if I ask a question about something in the Quran the response I'd get wouldn't be evidence based but 'god did it' or 'god knows' hence why I don't think i'll ever waste my time talking to an Islamic scholar or anything of the sort.

Quote:Well, the thing is that almost every word and phrase in the Quran carries an inner spiritual meaning. Just like the Bible (and other scriptures), the Quran is filled with complex metaphors and layers of meaning that go well beyond what we see on the surface. Some verses are literal while others are metaphorical. It's a mixture of the two. I don't know the reason for that, but that's just how it is, and I like it like that, because I think this is one of the things that makes the Quran so beautiful.

Unfortunately, most of the beauty of the Quran is lost in the process of translation. The greatest problem with a translation of the Quran is, of course, the fact that it transforms the Quran as the word of God in Arabic, to the speech of a human in another language. In this destructive process, the linguistic beauty and the uniqueness of the Quran is almost completely lost, as the very words of God are replaced by human substitutions. The perfect choice of wordings, the syntax of the verse, the powerful rhythm of the passages, and the manners of eloquence displayed by the Arabic, are all destroyed. Even the famous Orientalist, Professor H.R. Gibb, said, "An English translation of the Quran must employ precise and often arbitrary terms for the many-faceted and jewel-like phrases of the Arabic, and the more literal it is, the greyer and more colorless it must be." The Arabic language is an extremely rich and powerful language, and it is simply not possible to convey in another language all the meanings that are conveyed in Arabic.

For many Westerners, the Quran is an extremely difficult text to appreciate, especially in translation. However, those who have a good knowledge of Arabic will be ready to admit that the Quran is untouchable in terms of its poetic eloquence and beauty. The text is regarded as one of the most extraordinary ever put down on paper. And precisely because it is extraordinary, it does not have to follow people's expectations as to what a book should be.
God's pretty silly then. Writing a book in a language that he knows people will find extremely difficult to understand. So much for clarity.

Yet, I'll admit that the Quran probably is a lot more poetic in arabic. I have no quarrels there.

I just don't like jumping through hoops to understand the truth. Philosophy isn't like that, nor is science. Why should the thing that is claiming to be the truth be so convoluted?

Quote:Yes, and one of the miracles is known as the challenge of the Quran.

The challenge is to simply produce a single chapter in Arabic which is similar to or better than the Quran, as God said, "And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful" (Surah 2:23)". And since that time, for the past 1,400 years, many people have tried to meet the challenge, and even some of the most skilled poets and writers (both Arabs and non-Arabs) have tried to do this in attempt to disprove the Quran. They were among the ones who knew the Arabic language fluently and some of them were even experts in the language. Even Arab Christians and Arab atheists took up the challenge. However, as predicted in the Quran, none of them were able to meet the challenge. They only put themselves to shame. And no one has ever done so yet.

Now, the most miraculous thing about this challenge is not that no one was able to imitate the beauty of the Quran - but that Muhammad was illiterate - an illiterate who lived among the Bedouins in Arabia. There is no historical evidence that he had lessons from someone else on linguistic/literary, historical, theological, and/or scientific fields of study, and yet, he came up with such an extraordinary book that no one could imitate or produce something even similar to it. That is exactly why it is counter-intuitive to think that Muhammad was the author of the Quran.

And when the Arabs of that time heard the revelations being recited, they became overwhelmed, and even jealous, by the literary power and eloquence of the Quranic verses. They couldn't believe how an illiterate man could create something like that all by himself. Even today, most of the Quranic scholars and experts consider the literary aspect of the Quran to be something amazing while knowing the fact that Muhammad was not a trained poet nor was he able to read. If you want to learn more about this topic, here's a good article:

Conclusive Proof that the Quran is the word of God

I do not actually think that the title of the article is appropriate - i.e. the words "conclusive evidence" - because my opinion on the literary beauty of the Quran is that this is something that strengthens the Quran's claim of divine origin, but not a conclusive evidence. Nonetheless, I still like the article because it explains the miraculous aspect of the Quran very clearly.

I've heard of this before. It's utterly pointless. It's as pointless as the Kent Hovind Challenge.

Firstly, no matter what anyone writes, it'll still be seen as inferior because of bias. You'll read it with the intention of trying to show that it isn't superior to the Quran.

Anywho, the rationalizer on youtube had answered some things relating to writing a better Quran. I can't find any of the videos he had on the topic however.


Thanks again for the other responses.

Yet, you do realise that the Quran gets things wrong about science? Dependent on how you interpret the miraculous passages. Just so you know, these claims are not special and should never be thought of as scientific in any sense of the word.

I have another question. If god did ask you to kill an innocent person, would you?

Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


Enlightenment is liberating.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Ask a Muslim [split from introductions] - ALovelyChickenMan - 28-04-2012 04:47 AM
RE: Ask a Muslim - Polakmaly - 31-05-2012, 06:47 AM
RE: Ask a Muslim - Chas - 31-05-2012, 07:37 AM
RE: Ask a Muslim - Polakmaly - 31-05-2012, 08:18 AM
Still waiting, Mullah. - Chas - 21-04-2012, 07:34 PM
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