Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
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14-06-2013, 10:58 AM
Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
Because fuck Chinese communism.

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14-06-2013, 05:16 PM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
Thought you might have had a question for me Smile
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14-06-2013, 06:08 PM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
Question: what exactly is a "Libertarian", and why should I support that kind of cause?

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14-06-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
(14-06-2013 06:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Question: what exactly is a "Libertarian", and why should I support that kind of cause?

Can I add an addendum: Are you a Ayn Rand Libertarian?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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14-06-2013, 11:57 PM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
I'm not sure I'm 100% clear one what it takes to be this, but 100% with all my might fuck your collectivism.

Not even sure I fit, but the people who hate her are always so beta and annoying that I side with her just to watch them throw a tantrum and kick the side of their prius/subaru wagon.



(14-06-2013 06:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 06:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Question: what exactly is a "Libertarian", and why should I support that kind of cause?

Can I add an addendum: Are you a Ayn Rand Libertarian?
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15-06-2013, 05:53 AM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
(14-06-2013 11:57 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  I'm not sure I'm 100% clear one what it takes to be this, but 100% with all my might fuck your collectivism.

Not even sure I fit, but the people who hate her are always so beta and annoying that I side with her just to watch them throw a tantrum and kick the side of their prius/subaru wagon.



(14-06-2013 06:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Can I add an addendum: Are you a Ayn Rand Libertarian?

I don't hate her I just find her politics and philosophy to be infantile and selfish and completely ignoring the complex social interaction that has a far greater effect than she or her followers are willing to admit. Her's is a cult of greed and self aggrandizement that claims each man is an island unto himself. It would be like following the teachings of Bill Maher, he makes a few good points and I find him funny. But his views are overly simplistic and he is not as deep as he thinks he is.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-06-2013, 06:26 AM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
(14-06-2013 05:16 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Thought you might have had a question for me Smile

Lol. We do seem to have very similar political ideals. It's nice to know someone else got it right. Drinking Beverage

Quote:Question: what exactly is a "Libertarian", and why should I support that kind of cause?

I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a right-libertarian. "Right" in both meanings of the word I might add.

A Libertarian is sort of like communism. They believe in minimal state/no state and that everyone is entitled to everything just because they popped out a vagina...
Dark Light is a good example. He hates taxes and believes they're immoral. This is a Libertarian thing to believe.


I on the other hand am a Right-Libertarian which is a lot different.
I'm still all for minimal state, BUT understand that some state is still required.
All social aspects, ie: gay rights, legalize weed, abortion etc.. I am in the pro-choice category and believe that state should bud the fuck out. The state should have absolutely nothing to do with any of that.
The business side however I am very much in favor of capitalism. So that's things like property rights ie: I own X amount of land, you own X - 10m^2 etc.., free markets, rich, poor etc..
The pro-capitalism is the fundamental key difference between Libertarianism and Right-Libertarianism.

Quote:Can I add an addendum: Are you a Ayn Rand Libertarian?

Just been doing some reading, because I'd never herd of her before...

It looks very similar to what I believe. Particularly one's own happiness part.
She's very much for laissez-faire capitalism though, which I am not.
Laissez-faire capitalism is 100% unregulated, freedom of choice, capitalism.
I think though that she believes this because she is not an economist. I've had some education in economics and have a fair understanding of markets and how they work. Without going in to it, it's basically more economically sound in a lot of situations to have certain regulation on certain markets. And if capitalism is about efficiency and more for less, then you need regulation.
A good example is monopolies. Basically without regulation monopolies have no incentive to 1) improve their product and 2) reduce their prices.
Someone who favors Laissez-faire capitalism, like Ayn Rand, would argue that someone else can enter the market and then it becomes customer choice.
BUT I think someone who perhaps has a better understanding of economics will argue that it's extremely difficult to enter into a market where there is a monopoly, and monopolies have a lot of power to force you out.

Basically I still think that the consumer needs to be protected (that's the commercial law student side of me talking), thus regulation. But that goes against laissez-faire capitalism.

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15-06-2013, 06:38 AM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
(15-06-2013 06:26 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 05:16 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Thought you might have had a question for me Smile

Lol. We do seem to have very similar political ideals. It's nice to know someone else got it right. Drinking Beverage

Quote:Question: what exactly is a "Libertarian", and why should I support that kind of cause?

I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a right-libertarian. "Right" in both meanings of the word I might add.

A Libertarian is sort of like communism. They believe in minimal state/no state and that everyone is entitled to everything just because they popped out a vagina...
Dark Light is a good example. He hates taxes and believes they're immoral. This is a Libertarian thing to believe.


I on the other hand am a Right-Libertarian which is a lot different.
I'm still all for minimal state, BUT understand that some state is still required.
All social aspects, ie: gay rights, legalize weed, abortion etc.. I am in the pro-choice category and believe that state should bud the fuck out. The state should have absolutely nothing to do with any of that.
The business side however I am very much in favor of capitalism. So that's things like property rights ie: I own X amount of land, you own X - 10m^2 etc.., free markets, rich, poor etc..
The pro-capitalism is the fundamental key difference between Libertarianism and Right-Libertarianism.

Quote:Can I add an addendum: Are you a Ayn Rand Libertarian?

Just been doing some reading, because I'd never herd of her before...

It looks very similar to what I believe. Particularly one's own happiness part.
She's very much for laissez-faire capitalism though, which I am not.
Laissez-faire capitalism is 100% unregulated, freedom of choice, capitalism.
I think though that she believes this because she is not an economist. I've had some education in economics and have a fair understanding of markets and how they work. Without going in to it, it's basically more economically sound in a lot of situations to have certain regulation on certain markets. And if capitalism is about efficiency and more for less, then you need regulation.
A good example is monopolies. Basically without regulation monopolies have no incentive to 1) improve their product and 2) reduce their prices.
Someone who favors Laissez-faire capitalism, like Ayn Rand, would argue that someone else can enter the market and then it becomes customer choice.
BUT I think someone who perhaps has a better understanding of economics will argue that it's extremely difficult to enter into a market where there is a monopoly, and monopolies have a lot of power to force you out.

Basically I still think that the consumer needs to be protected (that's the commercial law student side of me talking), thus regulation. But that goes against laissez-faire capitalism.

I think politically speaking we line up rather closely. I view government as a tool that should only be used to prevent violence and to handle issues that are larger than an individual could hope to handle by themselves ie: National security, Health Care, Regulating Businesses et al. I do not believe it has any business in curtailing freedoms unless there is a grave public risk to not doing so (ie: Regulations on operating Motor Vehicles, Drunk driving, Owning and operating Firearms) As such I can see the benefits of adapting some of the more successful socialist programs (national healthcare for instance) even though it would require more government to do so.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-06-2013, 06:47 AM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
(15-06-2013 06:38 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-06-2013 06:26 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Lol. We do seem to have very similar political ideals. It's nice to know someone else got it right. Drinking Beverage


I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a right-libertarian. "Right" in both meanings of the word I might add.

A Libertarian is sort of like communism. They believe in minimal state/no state and that everyone is entitled to everything just because they popped out a vagina...
Dark Light is a good example. He hates taxes and believes they're immoral. This is a Libertarian thing to believe.


I on the other hand am a Right-Libertarian which is a lot different.
I'm still all for minimal state, BUT understand that some state is still required.
All social aspects, ie: gay rights, legalize weed, abortion etc.. I am in the pro-choice category and believe that state should bud the fuck out. The state should have absolutely nothing to do with any of that.
The business side however I am very much in favor of capitalism. So that's things like property rights ie: I own X amount of land, you own X - 10m^2 etc.., free markets, rich, poor etc..
The pro-capitalism is the fundamental key difference between Libertarianism and Right-Libertarianism.


Just been doing some reading, because I'd never herd of her before...

It looks very similar to what I believe. Particularly one's own happiness part.
She's very much for laissez-faire capitalism though, which I am not.
Laissez-faire capitalism is 100% unregulated, freedom of choice, capitalism.
I think though that she believes this because she is not an economist. I've had some education in economics and have a fair understanding of markets and how they work. Without going in to it, it's basically more economically sound in a lot of situations to have certain regulation on certain markets. And if capitalism is about efficiency and more for less, then you need regulation.
A good example is monopolies. Basically without regulation monopolies have no incentive to 1) improve their product and 2) reduce their prices.
Someone who favors Laissez-faire capitalism, like Ayn Rand, would argue that someone else can enter the market and then it becomes customer choice.
BUT I think someone who perhaps has a better understanding of economics will argue that it's extremely difficult to enter into a market where there is a monopoly, and monopolies have a lot of power to force you out.

Basically I still think that the consumer needs to be protected (that's the commercial law student side of me talking), thus regulation. But that goes against laissez-faire capitalism.

I think politically speaking we line up rather closely. I view government as a tool that should only be used to prevent violence and to handle issues that are larger than an individual could hope to handle by themselves ie: National security, Health Care, Regulating Businesses et al. I do not believe it has any business in curtailing freedoms unless there is a grave public risk to not doing so (ie: Regulations on operating Motor Vehicles, Drunk driving, Owning and operating Firearms) As such I can see the benefits of adapting some of the more successful socialist programs (national healthcare for instance) even though it would require more government to do so.

I think they line up pretty closely as well.
I'm all for laws protecting citizens as well. ie: as you say, laws regarding operating a motor vehicle, firearms, etc..
I am all for socialist healthcare and education too. I think education and healthcare should be available to anyone regardless of financial position, thus; free. And I think it's in the countries best interest if everyone paid for those services via taxes.
ie: Even if you go to private school, your doctor may have gone to public school etc... etc...
And I'm all for private companies getting into education and healthcare as well.

Jail system though I believe should be 100% state owned and run. No private companies. Private companies have no incentive to rehabilitate, where the state has very high incentive to do so.

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15-06-2013, 09:05 AM
RE: Ask a Right-wing Libertarian
(14-06-2013 06:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 06:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Question: what exactly is a "Libertarian", and why should I support that kind of cause?

Can I add an addendum: Are you a Ayn Rand Libertarian?

My best definition of Libertarian is supporting minimal government regulation of both social and economic issues.

Ayn Rand is caricatured to the point that some will reject all her ideas without consideration. Economically, she was rather extreme and believed in no regulation whatsoever other than rule of law type things like contract enforcement. I'm with earmuffs on the need to regulate monopolies since it is clear that monopolies prevent free markets from functioning. Rand would oppose regulating monopolies. Socially, she'd fit right in on a forum like this. She was a non-believer, and in general she felt it was none of the government's business to regulate moral issues. She was in favor of abortion rights, and though personally she had a problem with people who were gay, she advocated repealing all laws that targeted gay people. Her philosophy of self centered morality extends to the individual, advocating that the individual should primarily only be looking out for themselves. I don't agree with that part of her philosophy.

Why Right-wing Libertarian then? In the context of US politics, it is not possible to be Libertarian leaning and be a Democrat. This is because Democrats generally favor government intervention in the economy to a much larger extent than the GOP, and their tolerance for disagreement on this area is very low. Despite the caricature of the GOP being entirely made up of Bible thumping Cretans, there has always been a strain of Libertarian leaning Republicans, Barry Goldwater being one of the more famous ones. So in the US, a Right-wing Libertarian can be used to describe a Republican that also supports non-intervention of the government in social issues and strong protections of civil liberties. There is a Libertarian third party in the US, but they go full out Randian crackpot.


As for government programs I support, I support public education because it simply is necessary to have that in order to compete in the economy. A child has no control over its circumstances in life, and therefore the government is needed to provide public education so that upon graduation, that individual is prepared to fend for themselves. I do not support free education at the college level, but do support the concept of state schools that serve the purpose of providing affordable college education. These state schools often support the economy and provide research capacity for industries in the state. I do not support public health care for all. Social Security and Medicare I can support, if tepidly and if we increased age eligibility, because despite all the best laid plans, if someone suffers an economic setback near old age they may no longer have the capability to right the situation themselves. I say my support is tepid because people should in general plan for their own living expenses in retirement, and I think these programs should be considered welfare programs and not rights that all are entitled to.
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