Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
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01-07-2013, 09:45 AM
Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
Originally posted on another thread, moved here to keep from derailing the previous thread.

(04-06-2013 05:21 PM)theword Wrote:  I realize you can give me contradictions and errors in the Bible. For every error, I can give you something you cannot refute, and we can play this game forever...

Challenge accepted!

For every error I give you, you have to come up with something I cannot refute.

Error number one: The birth of Jesus, according to Matthew, took place during a particular time period. According to Luke, the birth took place during a particular time period. The problem is, according to history, those time periods did not intersect. If one were true, it would prove the other false.

You can respond in one of two ways.
1. Show how my premise is wrong, thus invalidating your requirement to come up with something I cannot refute. Or
2. Come up with something I can't refute.

Ball's in your court.
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01-07-2013, 10:59 AM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
Damn, crickets be loud.
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01-07-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
You cannot refute that the bible mentions Jerusalem and that Jerusalem is a real place that exists to this day.

I win which means you lose. But you're welcome to refute the latter.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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01-07-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
Hmm. You've got a point there. But I suspish that's not what he meant. Wink
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01-07-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
(01-07-2013 12:04 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  You cannot refute that the bible mentions Jerusalem and that Jerusalem is a real place that exists to this day.

I win which means you lose. But you're welcome to refute the latter.

Yes but the Jerusalem mentioned in the early bible did not exist. Under David and Solomon it was not a grand city merely a small mountain town. This comes from the southern kingdom of Judah usurping the achievements of the Northern Kingdom of Israel after the Assyrians conquered the much more prosperous north.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-07-2013, 07:39 AM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
Still waiting for a response here. How could Jesus have been born during two time periods that did not overlap?
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02-07-2013, 07:51 AM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
(02-07-2013 07:39 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Still waiting for a response here. How could Jesus have been born during two time periods that did not overlap?

God works in mysterious, incomprehending, contradictory ways?

Cloning?

Alternate universe?

Work of fiction?

I'm sure there are other "perfectly" rational apologist answers. Blink

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-07-2013, 08:21 AM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/why-i...jesus.html

According to this apologist, they're both correct.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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02-07-2013, 08:46 AM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
Thanks, guitar nut, but you've touched on a separate discrepancy. I'm dealing with one that's far more troublesome (especially after the apologist you cited has dug an even deeper hole for himself).

Luke 2:1 says that Jesus was born "while Quirinius was governor of Syria." That's a historically verifiable time period. The census Luke speaks of, while Quirinius was governor, took place in 6 A.D.

Matthew, meanwhile, makes it quite clear that Herod was still alive at the time. Jesus is at least a year old in Matthew 2, according to that apologist. Since we "know" that Herod died in 4 B.C., we have a serious, serious problem. There is no way Jesus could be born at least a year before 4 B.C. AND in 6 A.D. at the same time. One of these accounts is wrong. Even if one were to argue that Herod died later than 4 B.C. (I've heard arguments for 1 B.C.), it still places the birth of Jesus in Matthew at least eight years before the birth of that same Jesus in Luke.

The reign of Herod and the governorship of Quirinius did not overlap.

One of the accounts of the birth of Jesus (at least one of them) is therefore a demonstrable lie.
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02-07-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: Ask a Theist Split: Accepting theword's challenge
(02-07-2013 08:46 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Thanks, guitar nut, but you've touched on a separate discrepancy. I'm dealing with one that's far more troublesome (especially after the apologist you cited has dug an even deeper hole for himself).

Luke 2:1 says that Jesus was born "while Quirinius was governor of Syria." That's a historically verifiable time period. The census Luke speaks of, while Quirinius was governor, took place in 6 A.D.

Matthew, meanwhile, makes it quite clear that Herod was still alive at the time. Jesus is at least a year old in Matthew 2, according to that apologist. Since we "know" that Herod died in 4 B.C., we have a serious, serious problem. There is no way Jesus could be born at least a year before 4 B.C. AND in 6 A.D. at the same time. One of these accounts is wrong. Even if one were to argue that Herod died later than 4 B.C. (I've heard arguments for 1 B.C.), it still places the birth of Jesus in Matthew at least eight years before the birth of that same Jesus in Luke.

The reign of Herod and the governorship of Quirinius did not overlap.

One of the accounts of the birth of Jesus (at least one of them) is therefore a demonstrable lie.

Ah, gotcha. Looks like the apologists are going to have to make a few adjustments to history. Get out your erasers, boys!

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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