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05-04-2012, 11:26 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2012 11:23 PM)itsacow Wrote:  So, say if a man commits murder, but god already knew that he would repent for his sins. Would he still go to heaven even if that is a mortal sin.(before purgatory had been invented). I just realized something, if god really does exist, he must be bored as hell because he knows all that will happen forever.
Mortal sins and purgatory are a part of Roman Catholic Christian mythology.

God already forgave the sins of the elect. And yes, it is possible that an elect could commit murder. Moses did.

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06-04-2012, 08:35 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
How can you suggest that YHWH was an invented god of the Edomites?
(09-12-2011 04:08 PM)Organon Wrote:  I'd like to ask which god was Jesus referring to when he declared himself Son of God, given that YHWH /Yahu'Yahweh, the Hebrew god in the Bible, was an invented god, probably of the Edomites.

If Jesus was referring to Yahweh, then how could he be the son of an invented god?

Perhaps there's a god that we don't know of, so was Jesus referring to a generic god and not the god of the Hebrews?
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06-04-2012, 01:55 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2012 11:26 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-04-2012 11:23 PM)itsacow Wrote:  So, say if a man commits murder, but god already knew that he would repent for his sins. Would he still go to heaven even if that is a mortal sin.(before purgatory had been invented). I just realized something, if god really does exist, he must be bored as hell because he knows all that will happen forever.
Mortal sins and purgatory are a part of Roman Catholic Christian mythology.

God already forgave the sins of the elect. And yes, it is possible that an elect could commit murder. Moses did.
The beloved Christian character called Moses, commanded his army to rape little virgin girls.
God didn't respond.
But when Moses hit a rock with a stick, god punished him and his followers severely.

If anyone believes this god exists, they ought to be compiling a list of questions for this MoFo to answer.
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06-04-2012, 04:27 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
1.If you don't take the bible as 100% literal, what makes some parts of it true and the other not? Sure one story may be a lot more credible than another, but that doesn't make it anymore true.

2. ( This has probably been asked before ) Is that your dog Big Grin?
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07-04-2012, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2012 09:30 PM by Humakt.)
RE: Ask a Theist!

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11-04-2012, 08:10 AM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2012 08:24 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(06-04-2012 04:27 PM)Magoo Wrote:  1.If you don't take the bible as 100% literal, what makes some parts of it true and the other not? Sure one story may be a lot more credible than another, but that doesn't make it anymore true.

2. ( This has probably been asked before ) Is that your dog Big Grin?
1) I based this on the original language, the audience, the context, the history, and any other special circumstances that may surround the literature.

2) Yes Big Grin That is King. He's my first kid.

(07-04-2012 09:20 PM)Humakt Wrote:  OK, heres my question:

How you doing?

Not bad. A little sick right now... but can't complain too much.

Quote:On the first part I'll take your word for that, although you should be. I don't know how you know what my purpose here is and even though in my case your correct, I suspect with some others you are'nt. Either way, your assumptions on peoples motivations are more an assumption than a rule.

No. It is not my job to convert. It's God's job. I simply do as I'm commanded. Right now, I believe that God wants me here - but not to convert any of you - but to give me a more in depth understanding of atheism. What I've found out is that atheists are generally good people and a joy to be around.

Quote:Again, an assumption and a somewhat vague one Do I believe as you do, from your introduction, no I don't. Do I disagree with it, no I don't either. You are as entitled to your views as the next man, so in that vien I agree with your beliefs even if I don't share them.

You're just using semantic gymnastics here. If you're an atheist, you do not believe what I believe and vice versa for me. This is completely objective and in no way subjective. I appreciate the fact that you accept what I believe, but that does not mean that you believe it... so no.


Quote:You may believe that, and they are your beliefs so fine. However, you could easily justify your beliefs with the wisdom of big bird. However, if your assetion carrys on that the validity of the bible gives it authority over what beliefs in general are valid, Im not sure how your assertion to "neutrality" can hold much water. The authority on which your beliefs are validated command you to "spread the word". Of course, you can do that and leave it to the listener to do his part and if thats the case then coolio.

If you're referring to the great commission, yes, we are commanded to spread the word; however, there we are also commanded to treat others as we would like to be treated. Berating people with religion gets you no where. You have to develop a relationship first.

Now, here at TTA,most everyone knows me and my position. If they are curious, they will ask. I am not here to convert, like I said, that's God's job. I am here to be vessel to help others with God - if that situation should arise.


Quote:I'm not sure if when I being a jerk, I'm acting, I think I may just be a jerk. But yes your not obliged to answer, aside from inviting the conversation in a public forum, which to my mind carrys with it the obligation to engage. Lastly, I agree with you on the issue of civility, if you accept that civility is a reciprocal agreement between civilised people.

This was an amended rule because people were intentionally trying to start flame wars in my thread.

Quote:Was going to leave it with my post above, but scanned up the page and that struck me as an odd thing to say.

Murder is defined as unlawful killing, if you go by that definition and you really have to as that is what the word actually means then I dont think you can say that Moses murdered, were he killed, he did so in accordance with Gods law, therefore there is no sin to forgive at least from God's point of view. Of course that kind of defense would'nt hold up in court at least in most most courts, Im sure there are still places where worshipping a giant golden cow will get you the death penalty.

Just a passing thought.

He was under Egyptian Law. It was unlawful to murder.

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11-04-2012, 11:01 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
How can you honestly think that it's 'Gods job to convert me?'. God never talks to anyone, and never shows any evidence of his existence, but yet you believe he will 'convert me'? How is he just going convert me with the way he decides to do things? And the people that actually hear God are a bit mad in the head. You can make yourself hear God if you convince yourself enough.
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11-04-2012, 11:09 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-04-2012 11:01 AM)Magoo Wrote:  How can you honestly think that it's 'Gods job to convert me?'. God never talks to anyone, and never shows any evidence of his existence, but yet you believe he will 'convert me'? How is he just going convert me with the way he decides to do things? And the people that actually hear God are a bit mad in the head. You can make yourself hear God if you convince yourself enough.

Well... he converted me by no choice of my own.

I guess "conversion" is a misnomer because all the elect are already "saved". Those that have not had their regeneration yet would be considered "unsaved".

I cannot change anyone nor can I convert anyone. That is beyond my power. An infinite God can most certainly convert people, and this happens on a regular basis when people have their regeneration.

God does not "need" us (believers); however, God uses us as a way for some peoples' regeneration to begin.

God communicates via the Holy Spirit to the elect. That is the way He talks to us. God has revealed Himself in three different ways, and, throughout history, He has communicated to us in three different ways. In the OT He communicated directly to His believers (Father), then He sent Jesus to the earth (Son), and then He sent the Holy Spirit (Holy Spirit).

God talks and reveals things to be everyday. It's not audible, but it's more of an understanding and confirmation without hesitation.

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11-04-2012, 11:22 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-04-2012 08:10 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-04-2012 09:20 PM)Humakt Wrote:  OK, heres my question:

How you doing?

Not bad. A little sick right now... but can't complain too much.

Quote:On the first part I'll take your word for that, although you should be. I don't know how you know what my purpose here is and even though in my case your correct, I suspect with some others you are'nt. Either way, your assumptions on peoples motivations are more an assumption than a rule.

No. It is not my job to convert. It's God's job. I simply do as I'm commanded. Right now, I believe that God wants me here - but not to convert any of you - but to give me a more in depth understanding of atheism. What I've found out is that atheists are generally good people and a joy to be around.

Quote:Again, an assumption and a somewhat vague one Do I believe as you do, from your introduction, no I don't. Do I disagree with it, no I don't either. You are as entitled to your views as the next man, so in that vien I agree with your beliefs even if I don't share them.

You're just using semantic gymnastics here. If you're an atheist, you do not believe what I believe and vice versa for me. This is completely objective and in no way subjective. I appreciate the fact that you accept what I believe, but that does not mean that you believe it... so no.


Quote:You may believe that, and they are your beliefs so fine. However, you could easily justify your beliefs with the wisdom of big bird. However, if your assetion carrys on that the validity of the bible gives it authority over what beliefs in general are valid, Im not sure how your assertion to "neutrality" can hold much water. The authority on which your beliefs are validated command you to "spread the word". Of course, you can do that and leave it to the listener to do his part and if thats the case then coolio.

If you're referring to the great commission, yes, we are commanded to spread the word; however, there we are also commanded to treat others as we would like to be treated. Berating people with religion gets you no where. You have to develop a relationship first.

Now, here at TTA,most everyone knows me and my position. If they are curious, they will ask. I am not here to convert, like I said, that's God's job. I am here to be vessel to help others with God - if that situation should arise.


Quote:I'm not sure if when I being a jerk, I'm acting, I think I may just be a jerk. But yes your not obliged to answer, aside from inviting the conversation in a public forum, which to my mind carrys with it the obligation to engage. Lastly, I agree with you on the issue of civility, if you accept that civility is a reciprocal agreement between civilised people.

This was an amended rule because people were intentionally trying to start flame wars in my thread.

Quote:Was going to leave it with my post above, but scanned up the page and that struck me as an odd thing to say.

Murder is defined as unlawful killing, if you go by that definition and you really have to as that is what the word actually means then I dont think you can say that Moses murdered, were he killed, he did so in accordance with Gods law, therefore there is no sin to forgive at least from God's point of view. Of course that kind of defense would'nt hold up in court at least in most most courts, Im sure there are still places where worshipping a giant golden cow will get you the death penalty.

Just a passing thought.

He was under Egyptian Law. It was unlawful to murder.
Get well soon, a fair enough answer and stance and your certainly acting in accordance with spreading the word, I wasnt trying to suggest you were being lax by not being unpleasant about it or anything. In fact your appoach of providing a posative example of the opposing view is nice to see, after all you catch more flys with honey than vinegar.

As to semantics, all conversion is by its very nature is semantic, as to the allusion to something as graceful as gymnastics thats most flattering, but I characterise it more as stubbling around. I again, if I must label or be labeled prefer agnostic, although atheist also works as I dont believe there is a God, I feel more comfortable with agnostic because my belief is based on my lack of knowledge of God, both in the sense that I see no compelling evidence for or indeed need for in light of current scientific theory for a God and in the other sense of feeling it in my heart or having any sense of being touched by grace or however you would prefer that phrased.

As to prevention of flame wars and the nessecitating a change in your rules, I can see that and given the size of your thread here and your level of activity such a rule is perhaps also nessecary in the sense of making a better use of your time.

Like I said, just a passing thought and my comments are addressing the killing of the idol whorshippers, after the descent from the mountain, as ,the reference to a big giant cow indicates. So I dont think that at that point he is under the law of Pharoh, Moses may have killed whilst still in Egypt, its been a while since I read exodus, but this is before the delivery of the 10 commandments so at that time no one is commanded not to kill also there is no allusion of a "give unto Pharoh" clause either. So the temporal power of pharoh, is not of concern in the area of Gods law to which I referred. However, the action of killing the idoliters not 5 minutes after being commanded in person by God to not kill, does strike me as a little contary or curious. Either way I wasnt trying to be inflammitory with that, as I said just a passing thought on notcing your answer to another post.

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12-04-2012, 01:02 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
hey KC, I'm theist and catholic but i don't share some of your point of view, i don't think that we are elected or not-elected since the very beginning or that God just send to hell the ones that don't believe in him just because of that. I believe that anyone can reach the paradise (my view of heaven) if he lives in a right way during is time on the earth, no matter his religion or non-religion. God is God, he is all-powerful and the only thinks he wants for us is to be happy on this life and in the next, so if you life doing the good you will be rewarded and if you don't you will be punished, no matter what your believes are.

I would like to hear your thoughts about my point of view.

PS. sorry for any grammatical error, English is not my main language.
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