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05-05-2012, 04:38 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2012 07:47 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-05-2012 04:25 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  Was Noah a real man? At which point in this story does noah and the animals become figurative?


No. Noah was a mythological person, inserted into the text, because all the ancient Near Eastern myth systems had flood myths. The flood story in Genesis was appropriated form Gilgamesh. Read Tablet 11. http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/meso...gilgamesh/

There was no "author". It was more like "authors/editors", and the process of the editing/re-working is well known in academic circles. The P, (Priestly) source, the E (Elohim) source, the D (Deuteronomic) source, the J/Y, (Yahwist) source, the K source etc are accepted by ALL the academic centers in the entire world as the sources which were cobbled together, reworked, and multiple times, re-assembled, depending on the period, and needs of the time.





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05-05-2012, 05:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Nuh-uh! Add them letters up, and what do they spell? That's right, SATAN!

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05-05-2012, 07:51 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2012 08:12 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-05-2012 05:25 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Nuh-uh! Add them letters up, and what do they spell? That's right, SATAN!


Nuh -huh ! We got that one covered too. So veddy sorry. The ONLY question remaining for today, is ... which one will win the (KY) Derby ?

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08-05-2012, 07:23 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Does God kill children with cancer so his Catholic priests have something to play with in heaven??
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09-05-2012, 08:40 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2012 08:45 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2012 12:34 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  "it becomes evident that the author did not mean for certain things to be taken literally"

Forgive me if I am reading this wrong, but I find your answer somewhat just a repeat of the question and not an explanation.

The literal interpretation of the Bible is somewhat of a recent thing. When studying the history of Biblical stories, we see that the authors present the stories as a way of communication... much like a parable. This is not to say that they are not inspired. They are inspired by God... meaning, God used the stories of the time and changed them in a way that the people could understand God and His covenant with them.

Quote:That is exactly what I am talking about though, "it becomes evident", it becomes evident as science grows.
I am the firm believer that the whole bible was suppose to be taken literally, all of it.

Then you don't understand theology or the history of the written books. Take Revelation for example; this book was written in what is known as "apocalyptic language". This is a symbolic type of communication that is rich with metaphors and numerology as well as symbolism.

Quote:Like what I said to my flatmate, if God created the earth over 4billion years, he would have said over 4billion years, but he didn't say that he said 7days. It is no skin off somebodies neck to say the world is 4billion years old rather then 4,000. It makes no sense to say one and not the real truth. What lesson is there in that?? I can see lessions in things like David v Goliath, but to say the world is 4 thousand years old instead of the more realistic 4billion??? The reason he didn't say 4billion, or the earth was round or unicorns never existed or whatever is because that is what the people at the time it was written believed. Proof that it was man written.

It was a representation and an adaption of the creation myths of the time.

Quote:It is just frustrating to see all the evidence presented before you, or whoever, and the only explanation they can give is "oh it's not suppose to be literal". I find it mind blowing how people take it and force it to fit. Because that is what saying "oh it's not suppose to be literal" is doing, it is trying to make something fit which does not in anyway shape or form fit.

Well, when the historical evidence presents itself as it was not originally to be taken literally you have to consider it.

Quote:We (humanity) should be at a stage where can now accept that this is not real, get over it, move past it and grow from there. But instead we are being held back grasping ever so desperately onto something that becomes ever thinner in the way of believability by saying stupid things like how it's just a metaphor. But I think I am straying from the original question a bit so I'll just stop typing shit as it pops into my head it seems to get me into trouble sometimes.

That's a different debate. But, religion has never held me back.
(05-05-2012 12:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Do you believe in a postmortem preservation of identity?
The Bible doesn't definitively say, but I think that our earthly identities will not be preserved fully. I think that we will have some semblance, but anything that could create pain is eliminated from our identities.

(05-05-2012 04:25 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  Was Noah a real man? At which point in this story does noah and the animals become figurative?
There is nothing that suggests that Noah wasn't a real person.
edit: Bible-wise that is. Bucky showed how Noah could be mythological according to a secular view. But, according to a Biblical view, Noah was, indeed, a real person.

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09-05-2012, 04:46 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2012 04:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-05-2012 08:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-05-2012 12:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Do you believe in a postmortem preservation of identity?
The Bible doesn't definitively say, but I think that our earthly identities will not be preserved fully. I think that we will have some semblance, but anything that could create pain is eliminated from our identities.

Your god don't mean dick diddly to me. Other than this question your metaphysics don't mean diddly dick to me either. I don't suppose you have a rationale or mechanism of action in mind for this "semblance", I don't suppose you even have a clear idea idea of what this "semblance" might resemble, but I think I might have enough to call you Brother. Wink

#sigh
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10-05-2012, 12:08 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Ok so I've learnt you are Calvinist, so you believe that salvation and damnation has been decided by god before you even die.

Well, does that mean that you believe that, no matter what you do in your life, good or bad, it will not affect whether or not you go to heaven or hell?
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10-05-2012, 12:12 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-05-2012 12:08 PM)Magoo Wrote:  Ok so I've learnt you are Calvinist, so you believe that salvation and damnation has been decided by god before you even die.

Well, does that mean that you believe that, no matter what you do in your life, good or bad, it will not affect whether or not you go to heaven or hell?
Yes.

Nothing affects salvation except God.

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16-05-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-05-2012 12:12 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-05-2012 12:08 PM)Magoo Wrote:  Ok so I've learnt you are Calvinist, so you believe that salvation and damnation has been decided by god before you even die.

Well, does that mean that you believe that, no matter what you do in your life, good or bad, it will not affect whether or not you go to heaven or hell?
Yes.

Nothing affects salvation except God.
So why do you get out of bed in the morning? What's the use?

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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16-05-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Iv'e got one; Why is hell an infinite punishment for a finite transgression?

Lets say my "sins" are blasphamy, some minor adultry and I stole from a blind guy, Why is my afterlife punishment the same length as say a mass murderer or Hitler?
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