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14-06-2012, 01:40 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
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I'm not saying that anything I believe about the Bible is authoritative or law; I'm just saying that this is what I've learned and been led to believe through my studies.
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Thanks for the info. As I said I was just curious. It's very irritating when you speak to a convinced christian yet they can not even biblically back up what they are talking about. You seem to be going about it in a respectful method. And anyone can at least appreciate/respect that, however false they might find the Bible (me included Big Grin )

And yet another interesting topic I am not interested in.
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14-06-2012, 02:49 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(14-06-2012 01:22 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm sorry, but I'm having troubles understanding what you were trying to say. Can you rephrase this in a more simple way? Please bare with me, I'm not a native English speaker.

Sure. Think of it like this. Your dad tells you about a wreck he got into as a little boy. The literal and empirical data of the wreck (time, whereabouts, cars involved, etc) are suspect because they are most likely not going to be accurate.

But, the fact that he got into a wreck, totaled the car, and almost died doesn't change.

Does it make more sense?

Quote:Wait a second, didn't you just say that the supernatural events in the OT are merely hyperbolic and figurative?

I said Genesis. Genesis is unlike any other book. It's just really different.

Quote:1.) According to modern theologists/your interpretation of the Bible, where do non-believers go after dead, if not to hell?

They do go to hell. All non-elect go to hell... after judgment they go to the lake of fire.

Quote:2.) Where does the original sin come from, if the story of Adam and Eve never actually happened?

God created sin. God created humans to sin. If they didn't, then His plan couldn't be carried out.

I don't believe in the common understanding of original sin (Adam's sin is why we sin) because I think this subjugates God to Adam's choice which caused God to respond. I think it was God's plan all along for humans to sin. He created them with a sin nature aka sinful.

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14-06-2012, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2012 03:12 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(14-06-2012 02:49 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Sure. Think of it like this. Your dad tells you about a wreck he got into as a little boy. The literal and empirical data of the wreck (time, whereabouts, cars involved, etc) are suspect because they are most likely not going to be accurate.

But, the fact that he got into a wreck, totaled the car, and almost died doesn't change.

Does it make more sense?
Thanks, now I understand what you were trying to get at. I would agree that this concept applies to the given example, however it does not apply to supernatural events. Eye-witness reports of such events aren't reliable today, what makes you think that they were more reliable 2000 years ago?

Quote:I said Genesis. Genesis is unlike any other book. It's just really different.
Gotcha. I suppose it would be pointless to mention that the events following the change of the Pharao's mind done by God contradict the scientific facts. I know, that's where the christian faith comes into play. Tongue

Quote:They do go to hell. All non-elect go to hell... after judgment they go to the lake of fire.
Oh, I see. I asked you this question because someone in a different thread claimed that modern theology doesn't accept the concept of hell, which made me curious.

Quote:God created sin. God created humans to sin. If they didn't, then His plan couldn't be carried out.

I don't believe in the common understanding of original sin (Adam's sin is why we sin) because I think this subjugates God to Adam's choice which caused God to respond. I think it was God's plan all along for humans to sin. He created them with a sin nature aka sinful.
With all due respect, that sounds quite absurd. God created humans as sinners so that we would have the choice of either burning in hell for the sins we were born with or believing in him and spending eternity in heaven? I find it quite hard to put myself in a theist's shoes, it's just been too long since I was a Christian.

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14-06-2012, 03:24 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(14-06-2012 03:08 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Thanks, now I understand what you were trying to get at. I would agree that this concept applies to the given example, however it does not apply to supernatural events. Eye-witness reports of such events aren't reliable today, what makes you think that they were more reliable 2000 years ago?

They aren't.

Again, faith. There are certain parts of Christianity that have to be taken purely on faith.

Scripture is faith based.

Quote:With all due respect, that sounds quite absurd. God created humans as sinners so that we would have the choice of either burning in hell for the sins we were born with or believing in him and spending eternity in heaven? I find it quite hard to put myself in a theist's shoes, it's just been too long since I was a Christian.

Isaiah 45:7.

He didn't give us a choice. He chose people for salvation and damnation. He create them to sin because it was God's original plan for Christ to be sacrificed. Sin was a part of the plan.

Again... all of this is according to my understanding.

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14-06-2012, 03:37 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(14-06-2012 03:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  They aren't.

Again, faith. There are certain parts of Christianity that have to be taken purely on faith.

Scripture is faith based.
If all of it comes down to faith, then I have no further questions for the moment.

Quote:Isaiah 45:7.

He didn't give us a choice. He chose people for salvation and damnation. He create them to sin because it was God's original plan for Christ to be sacrificed. Sin was a part of the plan.

Again... all of this is according to my understanding.
That's exactly why I'm asking these questions, to inform myself about a different point of view. Thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions. Thumbsup

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14-06-2012, 04:04 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
You ever get bored of answering these questions lol?
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14-06-2012, 09:44 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Nah. He's full of it.

I mean answers.

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15-06-2012, 08:08 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
This one question has been sitting in my head for days. KC, I want to hear your opinion about this.

"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over everycreeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
- Genesis 1:26

Why does God say "in our image"? Doesn't that imply that there were other beings that worked together with him? Does this verse have the same meaning in the original hebrew version of the Bible? I'm curious.

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15-06-2012, 10:47 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-06-2012 08:08 AM)Vosur Wrote:  This one question has been sitting in my head for days. KC, I want to hear your opinion about this.

"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over everycreeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
- Genesis 1:26

Why does God say "in our image"? Doesn't that imply that there were other beings that worked together with him? Does this verse have the same meaning in the original hebrew version of the Bible? I'm curious.

While you're at it ChosenOne, tell me why that verse ain't interpreted as "We is God".

#sigh
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15-06-2012, 10:56 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-06-2012 08:08 AM)Vosur Wrote:  This one question has been sitting in my head for days. KC, I want to hear your opinion about this.

"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over everycreeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
- Genesis 1:26

Why does God say "in our image"? Doesn't that imply that there were other beings that worked together with him? Does this verse have the same meaning in the original hebrew version of the Bible? I'm curious.

This shows the earliest form of the Trinity. God speaks in persons (3) but is one. This is why He says "Our".

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