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11-08-2012, 09:15 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-08-2012 02:06 AM)sillinde Wrote:  Okay, as being one who's recently discovered the whole debacle I'm somewhat confused. Probably by things that have been explained before but that still eludes me. Now, first of all, if you say "this is not my view" or anything of the sort I'll accept that, I don't expect you to defend the opinion of others.

I think you need a new definition of "debacle". This is one of the best maintained and most polite threads in the A&T forums.

Quote:The major gripe is when people say the bible is a metaphor or "you're not to take the bible litterally" which seems to only mean certain parts of the bible. Specifically parts the religious person doesn't agree with, such as rape, genocide, incest and so forth. I say only parts because if the entire book is a metaphor then so is God and Jesus, which means they aren't real and there's no point worshipping metaphors. And the litterally part falls apart when the same people take parts of the bible they agree with litterally!

My question to this cherry picking is, how are you supposed to know which parts to follow and which parts to not follow? Because it seems you're just picking the values you agree with and/or agrees with secular values. Is there some "sign" if it's supposed to be a metaphor or not?
And please don't say "you have to believe to understand" because that's avoiding the question. It's a book, pure and simple and for people who read the language the meaning should be clear.


Parts of the Bible that aren't literal is a tricky subject. You have to analyze the context of the words and the history of the subject matter. There is more that goes into it but that's the gist.

Also, it's not just a "book pure and simple". It's a collection of writings over a long period of time with many different authors. The meanings were clear to the original audience, but they become muddied as culture and languages change. This is another reason why Bible history is important in understanding it.

The Bible isn't supposed to be "easy reading" so anyone can understand. The Bible is only meant for the elect - to teach them and guide them - this also includes study.

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11-08-2012, 01:55 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Cain did not exist. Laughat
One can only wonder WTF is actually going through KC's mind.
He is still buying into THAT particular load of bible baloney when we KNOW for a fact that it is not true.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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11-08-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-08-2012 09:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The Bible isn't supposed to be "easy reading" so anyone can understand. The Bible is only meant for the elect - to teach them and guide them - this also includes study.

How effin' stupid, arrogant and delusional can you get!?
Where in your book of holes does it say or even suggest that?

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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11-08-2012, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2012 03:06 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-08-2012 09:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The Bible is only meant for the elect - to teach them and guide them - this also includes study.
Laughat

I laughed so hard!

Thanks KC





According to this guy I can be elect too, just by willing it.
So if anybody can be elect if they want to... then anybody can read the bible?

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11-08-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-08-2012 09:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 08:01 PM)Magoo Wrote:  I know it is only God's choice, but I thought he may be more inclined to save his chosen ones children.

Like Cain?

There you go again, imagining you know the mind of God.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-08-2012, 04:00 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-08-2012 09:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Parts of the Bible that aren't literal is a tricky subject. You have to analyze the context of the words and the history of the subject matter. There is more that goes into it but that's the gist.

Also, it's not just a "book pure and simple". It's a collection of writings over a long period of time with many different authors. The meanings were clear to the original audience, but they become muddied as culture and languages change. This is another reason why Bible history is important in understanding it.

The Bible isn't supposed to be "easy reading" so anyone can understand. The Bible is only meant for the elect - to teach them and guide them - this also includes study.

Let me get this straight...

The creator of the universe comes to earth in order to communicate what is supposed to be 'the most important information EVER'. Information so important that if we don't get it just right, we end up being tortured for eternity for a finite crime. And the best he can do is have a bunch of illiterate goat herders pass it on orally for decades or even centuries before it is written down?

Then we need the 'elect' in order to interpret it for us? That worked out real well. Over 30,000 sects (at least some destined for hell), mistranslations, copy errors, entire texts left out, passages added, all because of the 'elect's great work.

What you're saying is this allegedly omniscient and omnipotent deity could not figure any other way to ensure that 'the most important information ever' could be recorded in such a way as to retain its original meaning clearly for future generations and not to become more muddled?

Let me know why this god is not either Inept, malevolent or non-existent...
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11-08-2012, 04:07 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I hereby elect everybody to be saved by Atheism!
(Lol I did something God can not do.)

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11-08-2012, 04:12 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-08-2012 01:58 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(11-08-2012 09:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The Bible isn't supposed to be "easy reading" so anyone can understand. The Bible is only meant for the elect - to teach them and guide them - this also includes study.

How effin' stupid, arrogant and delusional can you get!?
Where in your book of holes does it say or even suggest that?

I Corinthians 2:6-16
"We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"— but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ."


The irony to this belief is for some 40 years or so, I thought I was Elect and filled with the Holy Spirit. I definitely understood the Word of God and even taught it and explained it to others for most of my adult life. However, it turns out that I'm not one of the chosen ones, so I guess I can no longer understand it.No

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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11-08-2012, 04:12 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-08-2012 04:00 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  Let me get this straight...

The creator of the universe comes to earth in order to communicate what is supposed to be 'the most important information EVER'. Information so important that if we don't get it just right, we end up being tortured for eternity for a finite crime. And the best he can do is have a bunch of illiterate goat herders pass it on orally for decades or even centuries before it is written down?

No. Your knowledge or lack of knowledge of the Bible has zero bearing on salvation.

Quote:Then we need the 'elect' in order to interpret it for us? That worked out real well. Over 30,000 sects (at least some destined for hell), mistranslations, copy errors, entire texts left out, passages added, all because of the 'elect's great work.

What you're saying is this allegedly omniscient and omnipotent deity could not figure any other way to ensure that 'the most important information ever' could be recorded in such a way as to retain its original meaning clearly for future generations and not to become more muddled?

Let me know why this god is not either Inept, malevolent or non-existent...

The "elect" are the chosen believers. Not necessarily the interpreters of the Bible. God provides faith and insight to His elect. With this, He reveals what He wants for each individual via scripture.

Not sure where you got "the most important information ever". That's not something I ever said. The information in the Bible is a tool that God uses. He doesn't need it to reveal His plan to His elect; however, it is the medium He chose as a standard to instruct the elect.

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11-08-2012, 04:15 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-08-2012 04:07 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I hereby elect everybody to be saved by Atheism!
(Lol I did something God can not do.)

Wrong, again...God CAN do it, he's just to lazy.Laughat

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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