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05-09-2012, 06:52 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Phaedrus, you and A2's exchanged outlined my beliefs pretty well.

(31-08-2012 10:45 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Yeah, these questions are mainly addressed at KC.

Quote:Anyway, arguing that his god is unjudgeable is special pleading which is a logical fallacy

The thought of God, as a whole, is a logical fallacy. The belief in God isn't based on logic; it's based on faith.

[quote]so unless he has some justification for an unjudgeable god that I haven't heard before (and I've heard several) I guess that line of argument ends there because I do not respect this "god"'s right to remain unjudged. If he allows the murder of innocents, the death of babies, the rape of children, genocide, malaria, the black death, and cancer when he has the power to prevent those things then he is not worthy of being worshipped. That is a choice I make for myself; I will not worship an evil god. If that god exists. Which it does not, to any reasonable doubt.



So, what's up?

No new line of argument besides the faith that God is perfect and that His plan is His own; including sin - therefore, having and causing some pretty evil crap to happen. Sin has a purpose, and for its purpose to be served, evil has to happen.

I worship this God because of my faith that He's perfect, and if He's perfect, then His plan for everything is perfect. I accept that there is good and bad involved in God's plan in order to serve the purpose.

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05-09-2012, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 07:38 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
Chase200mph, as Erx said, you're new here. I'm no push-over, and I can debate. I know I'm breaking my own rules by answering your dick response, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

(01-09-2012 11:01 AM)Chase200mph Wrote:  1) I am not here to convert you, and you are not here to convert me.
Answer: Then you are not really a Christian/theist according to your breather and the bible…right? Convert you, sure I am because you profess Christian beleifs which are irrational and who doesn’t want to save another human being from irrational and dangerous beliefs. It is important to maintain/or strive for a healthy society and the only way this can be accomplished is to educate those that place the merits of society in the hands of a fictional evil magical being whose perfect word is nothing short of a collation of one great big hate speech against humanity.

I can't convert anyone. That's God's job; not mine. I don't hide my beliefs, and I share them freely. We are to create relationships with people; not berate them with legalistic beliefs. Besides, my belief is that God has already predestined His elect.

You are not here to convert me because I am not convertable. People have tried, but realized that my belief in God is too far rooted in faith; therefore, it cannot be removed.

Quote:B) I am well aware you don't agree with my beliefs.

Answer: but are you aware that your beliefs don’t agree with your beliefs and or the beliefs of the majority of which is Christian… I am betting with great confidence you don’t.

Try me. My beliefs are very well reconciled.

Quote: 5) This is for educational purposes.

Answer: Politely as possible I reply ‘nonsense’, there is nothing academic to be found in Christianity.

"Educational" as in "learning more about what I think". Context clues.

Quote: Lastly) I will explain things from a theist point of view (Christian - Calvinist).

Answer: Irrelevant……

That's an ignorant response. Different theologies gives different interpretations. It is very relevant.

Quote:2) The Bible is a valid authority for my beliefs.

Answer: and this is why you fail…..while one may study the bible in any public school system the bible cannot be studied from because it is NOT a relevant academic source and is historically bankrupt….. The bible is not nor has ever been validated and therefore has no academic authority.

Did I claim that? It's an authority in Christianity.

You're really saying some foolish things...

Quote: VIIII) Act like a jerk, and you probably won't get answered. I am not obligated to answer you. All I ask is that you keep your civility.

Answer: Interesting because ironically your bible and religion says you must not only respond like a jerk towards unbelievers refusing to believe you about your faith (irrational thoughts and beliefs) it states that you must murder them and their families….2000 years of murders and genocides professes exactly this type of mentality bound in biblical text, but whatever is clever, right?

You can disagree and have a civilized debate with being a jerk. Something you should look into.

Quote:I will do my best to answer your queries as honestly and completely as I know how.

Answer: Auhh, now this is the problem, you see your beliefs are all based in dishonesty and since many of these beliefs are core based beliefs you will defend dishonesty professing them as the truth in the end…even though you will eventually see them as dishonest….that’s when you will attempt to apply Christian apologetics… this isn’t my first Rodeo partner….it’s not even my first 10000. : )

If questions are asked about Christianity, then they are asked in honesty. Me beliefs are true to me, so they are honest to me. In this, I try to answer without veil.

And this isn't my first rodeo either... been doing this a long time.

Quote:In Closeting, are you sure you wish to engage in this debate…..while many intelligent people profess beliefs in this religion, none of them have ever put forth an intelligent intellectual reason to support this belief. In other words, in 2000 years this has never been accomplished by those that indoctrinated you into your/their beliefs system, not one intelligent reason for believing but you still think that you can present this argument….just saying. Christian arguments are never debates because what the Christian perceives as an argument exists ONLY as a string of loosely formed conditional statements present without evidence…..

Most everyone, albeit a few, will disagree with you. I have proved myself intelligent, honest, and lucid in my religious discussions.

I haven't claimed anything without evidence, and things that I don't have evidence for I admit it's based on faith. Do some reading and learn who you're talking to before making dishonest and salacious claims about me.

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05-09-2012, 07:22 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-09-2012 10:57 AM)Logisch Wrote:  Perhaps this is a good question for KC.

I had an interesting discussion/debate with a muslim a few days ago. We got onto the subject of the universe, stars, speed of light and pretty much we agreed on things from a scientific perspective (which I found interesting). But when it comes to stuff like YEC (Young earth creationists) what is it that makes them CLING to this primitive world view? How does someone such as yourself (who is an evolutionary creationist) cope with others who so directly oppose your view of creation and how do YOU debate with them?

What would you say is your strongest argument as an evolutionary creationist against someone such as a YEC.

It makes me interested in others who share similar views even though we don't share the same feelings on a god figure, but I become excited and thrilled when someone is interested in science and always wonder... "Why don't the rest of these poor saps get this stuff?"

It's frustrating arguing with OECs, YECs, and PCs... so I know where you're coming from. The biggest issue I see is that they take half truths and pseudo science and run with it. Or, they'll say stuff like, "evolution has been proved untrue. Scientists are being dishonest".

This irks me to the core because they can't back or answer the claims that they are saying. They are misinformed and/or parroting WLC and Kirk Cameron. But, you know, before I started studying science, I used to be that guy... so it's hard to get too mad. It's basically ignorance and an unwillingness to remedy it.

You can't argue with them. Nothing will come of it. Just encourage them to research their claims. When I started researching the claims that I was making, I realized they were false... science wasn't hiding anything... wasn't lying... science can't do that... that's not even what science is.

Anyway, my scientific research made me realized that evolution is as natural as gravity, the tide, and digestion. This caused a crisis of faith until I actually started to research the early books of the Bible... and, not to get into it again, but my beliefs became reconcile after a lot of time and study.

It seems that YECs and such are lazy and don't want to put in the time to really dig into their beliefs. That's what I think anyway... because anyone who really, really, REALLY looked into it couldn't believe in a young earth or a literal creation.

Some good questions I posed to them are traveling distance light and radio metric dating. These are pretty iron clad and good nails in the coffin.

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05-09-2012, 09:26 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-09-2012 07:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I can't convert anyone. That's God's job; not mine. I don't hide my beliefs, and I share them freely. We are to create relationships with people; not berate them with legalistic beliefs. Besides, my belief is that God has already predestined His elect.

It's God's job to convert people?

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't converting an active ..uh.. act? I've always seen it as a "doing" kind of word...

If it is, that begs the question... If God has everything (or at least beliefs) pre-planned, why would It have to convert a person?
Considering that their heresy was already planned by It in the first place, so why would God have to convert them, instead of letting his poorly built script to run in the first place as he planned it to...

Doesn't it seem just a tad pointless to make a person destined to disbelieve then say: "Oh shit, I fucked on this guy! Quick reverse that fate before I have him die!!"

.... Or am I misreading it? Sorry if I am...

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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05-09-2012, 09:41 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
LOL WTF,GOD IS FUCKING FAKE.

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05-09-2012, 10:01 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-09-2012 09:41 PM)BizzysaidAss Wrote:  LOL WTF,GOD IS FUCKING FAKE.

"Ask a Theist"... Not make fairly obvious statements.

Although I will give you comedy points due to your "Ask me Dedra ,Physic reading Thread"

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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05-09-2012, 10:13 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-09-2012 09:26 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 07:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I can't convert anyone. That's God's job; not mine. I don't hide my beliefs, and I share them freely. We are to create relationships with people; not berate them with legalistic beliefs. Besides, my belief is that God has already predestined His elect.

It's God's job to convert people?

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't converting an active ..uh.. act? I've always seen it as a "doing" kind of word...

If it is, that begs the question... If God has everything (or at least beliefs) pre-planned, why would It have to convert a person?
Considering that their heresy was already planned by It in the first place, so why would God have to convert them, instead of letting his poorly built script to run in the first place as he planned it to...

Doesn't it seem just a tad pointless to make a person destined to disbelieve then say: "Oh shit, I fucked on this guy! Quick reverse that fate before I have him die!!"

.... Or am I misreading it? Sorry if I am...

You're reading too much semantics into my words.

Yes, God has already chosen His elect. There is no conversation such as "Aw crap, time to switch sides."

It's more of a realization of the election. This is called a regeneration.

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05-09-2012, 10:25 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-09-2012 10:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're reading too much semantics into my words.

Yes, God has already chosen His elect. There is no conversation such as "Aw crap, time to switch sides."

It's more of a realization of the election. This is called a regeneration.

Okay, but I didn't mean people saying "time to switch sides" I meant God switching people.

Good to know either way I guess... I really have to kick my habit of reading into things like that... Now I realise why one side of my family calls me Spock.... it annoys me...

Although your answer does make me curious; Is it possible to know who is "Elect" and who isn't?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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06-09-2012, 04:03 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-09-2012 10:01 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 09:41 PM)BizzysaidAss Wrote:  LOL WTF,GOD IS FUCKING FAKE.

"Ask a Theist"... Not make fairly obvious statements.

Although I will give you comedy points due to your "Ask me Dedra ,Physic reading Thread"
I was making a snap response to someone saying"only God can change me ."lol smh
And I read minds i can't just know information about a person by reading a post I would rob banks if i could do that Smile .

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06-09-2012, 05:54 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(06-09-2012 04:03 AM)BizzysaidAss Wrote:  I was making a snap response to someone saying"only God can change me ."lol smh
And I read minds i can't just know information about a person by reading a post I would rob banks if i could do that Smile .

I have seen as much evidence for mind readers as I have for homoeopathy, horoscopes, Voodoo and any other Woo that you may do.

Hell, as much as it hurts my pride to say so, I think KC has a better case for establishing his deity than you do your mind reading prowess. But this is neither the time or the place for such a discussion.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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