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09-09-2012, 06:41 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-09-2012 06:36 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-09-2012 11:07 PM)phace_plant Wrote:  kingschosen,

As a first time visitor to this site, I'm surprised that you were elected as the theist go-to guy. Your responses to the questions asked are quite arrogant. Wikipedia does better.

I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific on your claim that I'm arrogant.

Also, I made the thread. No one elected me to do so.

Moreover, lolwut? at the Wikipedia comment. That doesn't even make sense in Bizzaro World... what are you trying to say?

If you weren't so arrogant you'd know what he meant.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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09-09-2012, 07:07 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
For Phance's credit, Wikipedia couldn't be any crazier. Thumbsup

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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10-09-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-09-2012 02:54 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  Hey KC.

Hey bud.

Quote:Do you ever worry about your faith being stumbled here?

There have been a few times... sure. A few weak moments. Won't deny that.

Quote:What is it that keeps you here and yet keeps you holding onto your faith despite all the viewpoints you hear?

I can't shake what happened to me or the faith that was given to me.

Quote:My parents always told me to shun and turn down apostate viewpoints.
That it's satan trying to stumble you
. As a matter of fact, I'm sure there are bible verses that back that viewpoint up.

No, there aren't verses backing that up. There are verses about shunning false teachings but nothing about apostate teachings. Shunning apostates is kind of contradictory to what Christ wants.

Quote:I've have learned to tell my parents and others, that if you have truth on your side then you have nothing to fear. Not even being wrong. And if you are wrong then you are closer to truth.

Good philosophy. I have admitted that I could be wrong... simply because I'm not omniscient. My faith, however, gives me... well... faith in what I believe.

Quote:Anyway I'm rambling now. What is it given your open mindedness and time here that keep you holding on. What am I not getting? You seem reasonable.

I enjoy the community. I enjoy the the intelligent conversation. I enjoy people trying to convince be that I'm wrong. All of this is a to understand truth. You can't sharpen a blade with lead.

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10-09-2012, 10:31 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-09-2012 08:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, there aren't verses backing that up. There are verses about shunning false teachings but nothing about apostate teachings. Shunning apostates is kind of contradictory to what Christ wants.

Paul would disagree with you. But not surprising since he never seemed to be aware of any of Christ's actual teachings.

"Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.' Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty'" (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).

"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!" (2 Timothy 3:1-5).

"Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned" (Titus 3:10,11).

The writer of the Johannine Epistles: "Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds" (2 John 9-11).

And John the Revelator talking about Babylon, the great Apostate: "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues" (Revelation 18:4).

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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10-09-2012, 10:53 AM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2012 11:07 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-09-2012 08:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I enjoy the community. I enjoy the the intelligent conversation. I enjoy people trying to convince be that I'm wrong. All of this is a to understand truth. You can't sharpen a blade with lead.
That's one of the fundamental flaws in your line of thinking, KC. When arguing about religion, you start off with the premise that you are right and that no argument, no matter how strong or convincing it is, can change your point of view, because your belief is backed up by faith. Don't take this personal, but you are an intellectually dishonest person that is incapable of having a fruitful discussion about this topic. Over the past couple of months you have demonstrated several times that you are not interesting in the actual truth, an example being your unwillingness to accept the mere possibility that your 'Damascus road experience' was nothing but a psychological phenomenom. Instead of being reasonable and thinking rational, you continue clinging on to your delusion that you were specifically chosen by the creator of the universe to be in heaven and that he controls and planned every second of your life.

That being said, I think that you're an intelligent guy who is able to think critically and rationally about most topics, the exception being your own belief.

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10-09-2012, 11:29 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Ok maybe some of the Christ bots on this site can 'splain this to me.
Earlier this summer a 20 year old nephew on my ex wife's side was arrested and confessed to molesting a little boy, numerous times for several years.
While he was doing this, he was raising money to go on a foreign missions trip with compassion international. He was reised in a United Pentecostal Church and always wanted to preach.

Now for those of you who haven't thrown up in your mouth yet, here's the kicker. Ever since he has been in jail he has been showered with love frm this church, everyone haas been praying for him, making excuses for him and going to visit him. I have not heard ONE of these christians pention the little boy or express anything but indifference toward the victim.

If you really know me you know it took an act of will to complete that last paragraph without any four letter words.


BTW this is the same group of Christ tards that never welcomed or wanted me in their assembly, or wanted anything to do with me, and do you think they come visit me after I left the fold. bahaahah don't be silly. I am worse to them than this pedophile who was raised in their midst, and my ex's family thinks worse of me too.
These are the people who wouldn't pee on me, or anyone else who leaves the church, if I was on fire unless they could pee gasoline! Defending a pedo.


So, what say you Theists to this?? Got any explanations?
Why do you justify your own people's actions and condemn others for less. I'll be waiting. Evil_monster
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10-09-2012, 03:26 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-09-2012 10:31 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

This was addressing fellow believers that were in the Roman church. It was directed towards people who were causing problems from the inside not outside aka apostates.

Quote:"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.' Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty'" (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).

This has to do with marriage. This isn't about shunning apostate teachings.

Quote:"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!" (2 Timothy 3:1-5).

This is a continuation from chapter 2. This is what you do after you have reproved someone and they continue in their ways. That's why the sentence starts with "But".

Chapter 2 v 23-26
23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. 24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Quote:"Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned" (Titus 3:10,11).

This is just like the Romans verses. This is addressing believers who stir up controversy within the church with legalism. This isn't about apostates.

Quote:The writer of the Johannine Epistles: "Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds" (2 John 9-11).

As you know, this was written to the believers in the Johannine circles. It was telling them to not be deceived by false doctrine.

Although, the language is a bit ambiguous because of the Greek word that is used for "deceivers" in v7.

You could have a good case here, but then again, so could I.

Quote:And John the Revelator talking about Babylon, the great Apostate: "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues" (Revelation 18:4).

I see it as John telling them to turn from their sin. Not exactly shunning apostate teachings in the sense that we're talking. It's more of a turning away from the apostate teachings. But, I can see what you're saying.

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10-09-2012, 03:40 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-09-2012 03:26 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-09-2012 10:31 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

This was addressing fellow believers that were in the Roman church. It was directed towards people who were causing problems from the inside not outside aka apostates.

Quote:"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.' Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty'" (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).

This has to do with marriage. This isn't about shunning apostate teachings.

Quote:"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!" (2 Timothy 3:1-5).

This is a continuation from chapter 2. This is what you do after you have reproved someone and they continue in their ways. That's why the sentence starts with "But".

Chapter 2 v 23-26
23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. 24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Quote:"Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned" (Titus 3:10,11).

This is just like the Romans verses. This is addressing believers who stir up controversy within the church with legalism. This isn't about apostates.

Quote:The writer of the Johannine Epistles: "Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds" (2 John 9-11).

As you know, this was written to the believers in the Johannine circles. It was telling them to not be deceived by false doctrine.

Although, the language is a bit ambiguous because of the Greek word that is used for "deceivers" in v7.

You could have a good case here, but then again, so could I.

Quote:And John the Revelator talking about Babylon, the great Apostate: "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues" (Revelation 18:4).

I see it as John telling them to turn from their sin. Not exactly shunning apostate teachings in the sense that we're talking. It's more of a turning away from the apostate teachings. But, I can see what you're saying.

Your exegesis on 2 Corinthians 6 is out of left-field. There is nothing in the context that says this has to do with marriage. It is, however, used by a lot of pastors to say Christians should not marry heathens. It is, however, not what Paul said.

I could also make the same case about Romans 16 and 2 Timothy 3. Paul doesn't specifically say his advice is only for within the Church. Remember, by definition, I'm an apostate and I now am a proponent for dividing the church and being a "lover of self".

I'd even argue that Luke 10:10-12 makes a case for shunning non-believers.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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10-09-2012, 03:51 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-09-2012 10:53 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(10-09-2012 08:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I enjoy the community. I enjoy the the intelligent conversation. I enjoy people trying to convince be that I'm wrong. All of this is a to understand truth. You can't sharpen a blade with lead.
That's one of the fundamental flaws in your line of thinking, KC. When arguing about religion, you start off with the premise that you are right and that no argument, no matter how strong or convincing it is, can change your point of view, because your belief is backed up by faith. Don't take this personal, but you are an intellectually dishonest person that is incapable of having a fruitful discussion about this topic. Over the past couple of months you have demonstrated several times that you are not interesting in the actual truth, an example being your unwillingness to accept the mere possibility that your 'Damascus road experience' was nothing but a psychological phenomenom. Instead of being reasonable and thinking rational, you continue clinging on to your delusion that you were specifically chosen by the creator of the universe to be in heaven and that he controls and planned every second of your life.

That being said, I think that you're an intelligent guy who is able to think critically and rationally about most topics, the exception being your own belief.

That's not really a fair assessment. And to say that I'm intellectually dishonest and unwilling to consider that my change wasn't divine is also an unfair claim.

I have deeply and thoroughly considered that it was simple psychosis that changed me. I have spent many hours on it. But you can never know my anecdotal experiences nor prove them, so there is no way for you to say one way or another if I have considered these things or if I did or not have a divine conversion. The only thing you have to go on is what I say, and it is up to you to believe me or not when I say I was completely lucid during the events.

Your assessment of me should be based on what you know of me and what you've experienced from me. The fact that I'm rational and lucid in my conversations should be evidence enough, that because of my known character, I would have considered something other than divine intervention.

Also, don't misinterpret my continued refutations of my change as intellectual dishonesty. Just because you've only seen me refute the claims doesn't mean I haven't considered alternatives. You're judging me based on snippets of my entire history, which isn't fair.

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10-09-2012, 03:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-09-2012 11:29 AM)zip_ster Wrote:  So, what say you Theists to this?? Got any explanations?
Why do you justify your own people's actions and condemn others for less. I'll be waiting. Evil_monster
Do you really want to he what he think about your issue?
I hope you can make a long deep breath, because if he answer, he answeres in long, complicated, screwed sentence.

Do you ever read the appendix on a insurance policy?
Same thing, its designt to make you break ub reading and understanding.

Thats the way religios people are bow the trueth until it breaks.
And if they hear the cracking noise they shrough there shoulders and pretend it must be the wind.

I like to say, you can stir shit as long as you whish, it still remains shit.
I am an Ex-Catholic, i never has to go the way the poor boy has to, but i want to apologizes for what an adult, a respect-figure, a "man of god" has done to him.

I senceraly hope he gets good treadment and later as an adult he can go his way
without victimizing others.
Thats what happend often, the victim became the aggressor, because he dont want to be helpless anymore.
Keep an eye on him, if possible.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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