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11-09-2012, 10:07 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 10:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's why I'm a bit worn out on this. Chas and I have gone through this since I first came here.

We could go over it again for old times' sake.Yes

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11-09-2012, 10:13 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, I do get that. In fact, I've discussed exhaustively.

My evidence proves it to me. I've never said or implied that it should ever prove it for anyone else. As you said, anecdotal evidence is weak.

Mine, however, was strong enough for me to mold my beliefs.
That's exactly what I'm saying. It was strong enough for you, I can see that, but if it's not even slightly convincing to anyone else, how reasonable could it possibly be?

(11-09-2012 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I apologize for the comment. It was out of place. Sorry.

And yes, my beliefs are arrogant.
Apologies accepted. Sleepy

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11-09-2012, 10:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 10:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  That's exactly what I'm saying. It was strong enough for you, I can see that, but if it's not even slightly convincing to anyone else, how reasonable could it possibly be?

But, that's relative to the belief. It's not reasonable to an atheist but it is to a Christian.

Quote:Apologies accepted. Sleepy
Thanks.

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11-09-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 10:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But, that's relative to the belief. It's not reasonable to an atheist but it is to a Christian.
Just like anecdotal reports of experiences with extraterrestrials are convincing to those who claim to have met them, but not to anyone outside their clique.

That reminds me. Do you accept the same type of 'damascus road experiences' from peeps who are part of another religion as evidence for their god?

Time for coffee. Drinking Beverage

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11-09-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
'ey there. I got another one. Why is it that the vast majority of Christians, including you, do not follow the following verses in the NT?

Matthew 19:20-22
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

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11-09-2012, 02:38 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So you believe that the qualifications for being elect are solely based on faith, Kingschosen? So how can you be so confident that you are elect? How can you be confident that your wife is elect? You children? Your delusion of self-importance is sickening.

You can be a better person.

(11-09-2012 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's why I'm a bit worn out on this. Chas and I have gone through this since I first came here.

When did God say it was okay for you to be tired from the defense of your faith? Did Jesus take a break from his crucifixion? Since God is incapable of defending himself, I would figure that his first and only line of defense ought to start owning up to the criticisms.

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11-09-2012, 02:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 01:57 PM)Vosur Wrote:  'ey there. I got another one. Why is it that the vast majority of Christians, including you, do not follow the following verses in the NT?

Matthew 19:20-22
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

From this thread.

Jesus was using the RYR as an example of elect vs non-elect. Jesus often taught in parables and symbolism decided to use the instance before Him as a teaching tool. Jesus made it impossible for the RYR to receive salvation while the RYR couldn't figure out why would could not have eternal life.

Jesus uses the metaphor of "rich" to tell the disciples that the non-elect could never get into heaven. The disciples obviously understood what He was saying because they were astonished at it, and then ask about who could get into heaven and their own salvation (this obviously applies to the non-rich).

Take this conversation into context. If Jesus was literally talking about the rich, then why would the disciples ask about everyone else including themselves?

Jesus also plainly says it when He says, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Was this call by the Lord Jesus real, or not? This man walked away from a direct call of the Lord. Can a person really suggest that Jesus said this to the rich young ruler knowing full well he was incapable of following him?

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11-09-2012, 03:01 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2012 03:06 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 02:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 01:57 PM)Vosur Wrote:  'ey there. I got another one. Why is it that the vast majority of Christians, including you, do not follow the following verses in the NT?

Matthew 19:20-22
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

From this thread.

Jesus was using the RYR as an example of elect vs non-elect. Jesus often taught in parables and symbolism decided to use the instance before Him as a teaching tool. Jesus made it impossible for the RYR to receive salvation while the RYR couldn't figure out why would could not have eternal life.

Jesus uses the metaphor of "rich" to tell the disciples that the non-elect could never get into heaven. The disciples obviously understood what He was saying because they were astonished at it, and then ask about who could get into heaven and their own salvation (this obviously applies to the non-rich).

Take this conversation into context. If Jesus was literally talking about the rich, then why would the disciples ask about everyone else including themselves?

Jesus also plainly says it when He says, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Was this call by the Lord Jesus real, or not? This man walked away from a direct call of the Lord. Can a person really suggest that Jesus said this to the rich young ruler knowing full well he was incapable of following him?
There we go again, you're being intellectually dishonest. You wouldn't be able to interpret it this way if you weren't a Calvinist. Go figure.

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11-09-2012, 03:03 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 02:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 01:57 PM)Vosur Wrote:  'ey there. I got another one. Why is it that the vast majority of Christians, including you, do not follow the following verses in the NT?

Matthew 19:20-22
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

From this thread.

Jesus was using the RYR as an example of elect vs non-elect. Jesus often taught in parables and symbolism decided to use the instance before Him as a teaching tool. Jesus made it impossible for the RYR to receive salvation while the RYR couldn't figure out why would could not have eternal life.

Jesus uses the metaphor of "rich" to tell the disciples that the non-elect could never get into heaven. The disciples obviously understood what He was saying because they were astonished at it, and then ask about who could get into heaven and their own salvation (this obviously applies to the non-rich).

Take this conversation into context. If Jesus was literally talking about the rich, then why would the disciples ask about everyone else including themselves?

Jesus also plainly says it when He says, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Was this call by the Lord Jesus real, or not? This man walked away from a direct call of the Lord. Can a person really suggest that Jesus said this to the rich young ruler knowing full well he was incapable of following him?

There are countless professional Bible scholars who'd disagree with you. Your Calvinist beliefs are getting in the way of sound judgement. lrn2lrn

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11-09-2012, 03:10 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-09-2012 02:38 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  So you believe that the qualifications for being elect are solely based on faith, Kingschosen? So how can you be so confident that you are elect? How can you be confident that your wife is elect? You children? Your delusion of self-importance is sickening.

You can be a better person.

(11-09-2012 09:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's why I'm a bit worn out on this. Chas and I have gone through this since I first came here.

When did God say it was okay for you to be tired from the defense of your faith? Did Jesus take a break from his crucifixion? Since God is incapable of defending himself, I would figure that his first and only line of defense ought to start owning up to the criticisms.

There are no conditions to being elect. It's only God's decisions.

And yes, it's based on faith for the individual person.

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