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12-12-2011, 09:22 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
It was metaphorical not literal. Sheesh, guys. It was just a punchy quote.

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12-12-2011, 01:33 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(12-12-2011 09:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'll buy into this preposterous cockroach analogy when you demonstrate that cockroaches are intelligent and self-aware.

I am the intelligence and the awareness of the cockroach. Wink

I don't know if you were yelling at me or him, but if I come in here "leaving shit hanging" for KC to deal with, I'm gonna hafta clean up my mess, as it were. Wink

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12-12-2011, 01:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
This is the longest christian made thread about christianity that has actually remained civil, like evar. Well done TTA community, and big props for Kings. The new reigning champ of deflection against an atheist army!

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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12-12-2011, 01:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC,

I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, so forgive me if anything like this has already been asked.

My question concerns your views on hell--more specifically, your feelings about the people you come into contact with who you believe are going there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume your Calvinist faith incorporates all the following beliefs:

1. There is life after death, specifically (in GirlyMan's useful terminology) postmortem preservation of identity.
2. Hell is a real place of eternal torment.
3. The vast majority of humanity are destined to hell.

So unless you somehow arrange your life so you only ever associate with the Elect, which clearly you haven't done, then you're constantly coming into contact with people you believe are heading for hell--in particular, with only a couple of possible exceptions, all the people on this forum. I've noticed you have a good relationship with a number of TTA members, as evidenced by the friendly posts, the joking, the obvious mutual respect. And yet I gather you believe that virtually all the people you've met here are heading for a hideous future, one of eternal, unending torment, of wailing and gnashing of teeth, forever.

I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and imagine how that must feel psychologically. I think it would drive me crazy to meet people I like and care about, knowing--or rather, believing--that they're heading for eternal torture. It would be rather like seeing a driver with his foot on the floor hurtling at 90 mph towards the edge of a cliff and not being able to do anything about it. What do such beliefs do to your relations with people?

Again, if I've mischaracterized your beliefs in any way, please correct me.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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12-12-2011, 01:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(12-12-2011 01:54 PM)lucradis Wrote:  This is the longest christian made thread about christianity that has actually remained civil, like evar. Well done TTA community, and big props for Kings. The new reigning champ of deflection against an atheist army!

bah... he's taken a few cuts and scraps along the way.. obvious that he's suffered a head injury...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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12-12-2011, 02:10 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(12-12-2011 01:59 PM)ddrew Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:54 PM)lucradis Wrote:  This is the longest christian made thread about christianity that has actually remained civil, like evar. Well done TTA community, and big props for Kings. The new reigning champ of deflection against an atheist army!

bah... he's taken a few cuts and scraps along the way.. obvious that he's suffered a head injury...

The head injury was a pre-existing condition.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-12-2011, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2011 03:02 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(12-12-2011 01:33 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 09:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'll buy into this preposterous cockroach analogy when you demonstrate that cockroaches are intelligent and self-aware.

I am the intelligence and the awareness of the cockroach. Wink

I don't know if you were yelling at me or him, but if I come in here "leaving shit hanging" for KC to deal with, I'm gonna hafta clean up my mess, as it were. Wink

lol nah. That's just how Chas and I roll.
(12-12-2011 01:54 PM)lucradis Wrote:  This is the longest christian made thread about christianity that has actually remained civil, like evar. Well done TTA community, and big props for Kings. The new reigning champ of deflection against an atheist army!

Yeah, I'm really impressed with how well this is going.
(12-12-2011 01:59 PM)cufflink Wrote:  KC,

I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, so forgive me if anything like this has already been asked.

My question concerns your views on hell--more specifically, your feelings about the people you come into contact with who you believe are going there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume your Calvinist faith incorporates all the following beliefs:

1. There is life after death, specifically (in GirlyMan's useful terminology) postmortem preservation of identity.
2. Hell is a real place of eternal torment.
3. The vast majority of humanity are destined to hell.

So unless you somehow arrange your life so you only ever associate with the Elect, which clearly you haven't done, then you're constantly coming into contact with people you believe are heading for hell--in particular, with only a couple of possible exceptions, all the people on this forum. I've noticed you have a good relationship with a number of TTA members, as evidenced by the friendly posts, the joking, the obvious mutual respect. And yet I gather you believe that virtually all the people you've met here are heading for a hideous future, one of eternal, unending torment, of wailing and gnashing of teeth, forever.

I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and imagine how that must feel psychologically. I think it would drive me crazy to meet people I like and care about, knowing--or rather, believing--that they're heading for eternal torture. It would be rather like seeing a driver with his foot on the floor hurtling at 90 mph towards the edge of a cliff and not being able to do anything about it. What do such beliefs do to your relations with people?

Again, if I've mischaracterized your beliefs in any way, please correct me.

1) Preservation of earthly identity is still questionable. I'm leaning to more not.
2) Yes
3) Yes

I cannot say if any one person specifically (on this board) is going to hell because, who knows, every single one of you could be regenerated (not likely, but still possible). I don't know God's plan for each of you, so I cannot pre-judge any of your fates. As such, I treat every person as if they're on their cusp of their regeneration. It is sad that people I care about and people I interact with will be in hell; however, this is beyond my power. The best I can do is treat them the way I would want to be treated and enjoy the earthly time with them I have left; and continue to live like Christ to whomever I meet - no matter their religious views.
(12-12-2011 02:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:59 PM)ddrew Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:54 PM)lucradis Wrote:  This is the longest christian made thread about christianity that has actually remained civil, like evar. Well done TTA community, and big props for Kings. The new reigning champ of deflection against an atheist army!

bah... he's taken a few cuts and scraps along the way.. obvious that he's suffered a head injury...

The head injury was a pre-existing condition.

Well, it wasn't a head injury per se; it was prolonged, severe migraines.

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12-12-2011, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2011 08:50 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(12-12-2011 02:53 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:59 PM)cufflink Wrote:  ...
1. There is life after death, specifically (in GirlyMan's useful terminology) postmortem preservation of identity.
2. Hell is a real place of eternal torment.
3. The vast majority of humanity are destined to hell.

1) Preservation of earthly identity is still questionable. I'm leaning to more not.
2) Yes
3) Yes

Then why the fuck would I even give a shit either way? Tain't gonna be me that's suffering or hallelujahing. ... I'll reiterate my earlier observation, I ain't seeing much practical difference between a Calvinist and a nihilist.

Christian Soldier y u no get better knee armor?

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12-12-2011, 07:24 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Ooh, I love asking theists questions! I've never been a theist, so I really have no reference point to understand how any of them think. I am also really curious as to how anybody can believe in a god (especially a theistic one), so thank you for this opportunity to learn more about your perspective.

Okay, so here are my questions: Do you believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired, "Word of God"? If so, why? Why do you believe that this specific book, above all others, is a god's message for humanity?

Also, can you think of any better ways that your god could communicate with humans across the globe? If so, why do you think that your god chose to communicate through a book to a group of largely illiterate people?

Thanks in advance for answering Tongue


- Oh, and by the way, I've read your responses in this thread, and I must say that it is refreshing to meet a theist who accepts science and doesn't discriminate against homosexuals Big Grin It gives me hope for the future. -

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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13-12-2011, 12:13 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(12-12-2011 02:53 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:59 PM)cufflink Wrote:  My question concerns your views on hell--more specifically, your feelings about the people you come into contact with who you believe are going there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume your Calvinist faith incorporates all the following beliefs:

1. There is life after death, specifically (in GirlyMan's useful terminology) postmortem preservation of identity.
2. Hell is a real place of eternal torment.
3. The vast majority of humanity are destined to hell.

So unless you somehow arrange your life so you only ever associate with the Elect, which clearly you haven't done, then you're constantly coming into contact with people you believe are heading for hell--in particular, with only a couple of possible exceptions, all the people on this forum. I've noticed you have a good relationship with a number of TTA members, as evidenced by the friendly posts, the joking, the obvious mutual respect. And yet I gather you believe that virtually all the people you've met here are heading for a hideous future, one of eternal, unending torment, of wailing and gnashing of teeth, forever.

I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and imagine how that must feel psychologically. I think it would drive me crazy to meet people I like and care about, knowing--or rather, believing--that they're heading for eternal torture. It would be rather like seeing a driver with his foot on the floor hurtling at 90 mph towards the edge of a cliff and not being able to do anything about it. What do such beliefs do to your relations with people?

Again, if I've mischaracterized your beliefs in any way, please correct me.

1) Preservation of earthly identity is still questionable. I'm leaning to more not.
2) Yes
3) Yes

I cannot say if any one person specifically (on this board) is going to hell because, who knows, every single one of you could be regenerated (not likely, but still possible). I don't know God's plan for each of you, so I cannot pre-judge any of your fates. As such, I treat every person as if they're on their cusp of their regeneration. It is sad that people I care about and people I interact with will be in hell; however, this is beyond my power. The best I can do is treat them the way I would want to be treated and enjoy the earthly time with them I have left; and continue to live like Christ to whomever I meet - no matter their religious views.

Thanks for the reply.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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