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12-09-2012, 11:45 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(12-09-2012 11:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 10:51 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You admit it, and yet you continue to believe it. That's what is sad.


Only supports my argument.


Tell me how it is an unfair argument? It is completely true. You either prove to use you are not intellectually dishonest, or you can get off your high horse.


Really? Because your entire argument is a fallacy.

May I remind you what this thread is.

It's not a thread debating theism and atheism. It's a thread asking me questions and me answering them on the basis of my theism.

Attacking my sanity and logic isn't what this thread is about, and in other threads, I don't ask for "fairness". It's the simple fact that if you are asking me questions about my theism, then you are accepting the fact that my beliefs are different and maybe even wacky, but you're interested in my point of view and/or how I explain something.

Saying that my entire belief is a fallacy isn't relevant. I already know that you think this, and basing your arguments towards me on this is a bit silly as it doesn't serve the purpose of this thread.

If you're asking me to prove empirically my claims about God and the Bible without using the Bible as an authority is impossible for me. The foundation of these beliefs lies on the fact that I have faith in them. Faith cannot be proved empirically. I have never hidden this fact.

If you think I'm insane for believing this, that's fine. You're not hurting my feelings.

However, if you wish to continue trying to debate with me to prove this empirically, I cannot. Again, I've never claimed that I could. So... you win? I guess? If that's what you're trying to prove.

What I can do is offer my interpretations on a variety of things, but you have to accept that I used the Bible as an authority based on my faith. That's why I outlined the rules in my first post.

If you're not interested in this, then I guess there isn't anything else you and I can discuss.

Questioning why you believe as you do is a valid question under the rules you set forth. Pointing out the inanity of your explanations follows.

Suck it up.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-09-2012, 12:09 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Better yet, Kingschosen, let me spin it in a new way. You claim you had a personal experience that "enlightened" you? Well, similarly, those who claim to have been abducted by aliens claim the same thing. Do you believe that it is logical to assume that alien abductions occur because a handful of people claim they were? If not, tell me, what is the difference between your eyewitness testimony and another's?

Do you think it is a possibility that they were hallucinating? It happens to everyone on a regular basis. We see, hear, smell, and feel things that aren't there every day. Our senses are weak. I suggest you read "Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

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18-09-2012, 01:18 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Greetings, KingsChosen!

I'm interested in your thoughts of the violent protests in the middle east over the YouTube leak of the upcoming movie "Innocence of Muslims".
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18-09-2012, 05:01 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-09-2012 07:22 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-09-2012 10:57 AM)Logisch Wrote:  Perhaps this is a good question for KC.

I had an interesting discussion/debate with a muslim a few days ago. We got onto the subject of the universe, stars, speed of light and pretty much we agreed on things from a scientific perspective (which I found interesting). But when it comes to stuff like YEC (Young earth creationists) what is it that makes them CLING to this primitive world view? How does someone such as yourself (who is an evolutionary creationist) cope with others who so directly oppose your view of creation and how do YOU debate with them?

What would you say is your strongest argument as an evolutionary creationist against someone such as a YEC.

It makes me interested in others who share similar views even though we don't share the same feelings on a god figure, but I become excited and thrilled when someone is interested in science and always wonder... "Why don't the rest of these poor saps get this stuff?"

It's frustrating arguing with OECs, YECs, and PCs... so I know where you're coming from. The biggest issue I see is that they take half truths and pseudo science and run with it. Or, they'll say stuff like, "evolution has been proved untrue. Scientists are being dishonest".

This irks me to the core because they can't back or answer the claims that they are saying. They are misinformed and/or parroting WLC and Kirk Cameron. But, you know, before I started studying science, I used to be that guy... so it's hard to get too mad. It's basically ignorance and an unwillingness to remedy it.

You can't argue with them. Nothing will come of it. Just encourage them to research their claims. When I started researching the claims that I was making, I realized they were false... science wasn't hiding anything... wasn't lying... science can't do that... that's not even what science is.

Anyway, my scientific research made me realized that evolution is as natural as gravity, the tide, and digestion. This caused a crisis of faith until I actually started to research the early books of the Bible... and, not to get into it again, but my beliefs became reconcile after a lot of time and study.

It seems that YECs and such are lazy and don't want to put in the time to really dig into their beliefs. That's what I think anyway... because anyone who really, really, REALLY looked into it couldn't believe in a young earth or a literal creation.

Some good questions I posed to them are traveling distance light and radio metric dating. These are pretty iron clad and good nails in the coffin.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. There was a time when her and I were talking about things, but now more often than not she just recommends books to read, but she hasn't really read into any of the cited sources.

She often expects me to read the garbage she sends me, but when I propose she try something I send her, it's "offensive" or "not the same"...

It's become frustrating because I was fine with stuff and the family was quite ok with me for a while and then within the last many months, don't talk to me as often and I sense this odd tension like they want to talk about things, but HATE being challenged on things. It's frustrating.

What I would really like to do... and I think it would be fun... would be to ask her to post on the TTA forums, NOT tell her who I am, have her ask questions, and see how the community responds and how she responds and see if perhaps she can actually understand how challenged her ideas really are.

I'm not sure if that's something she'd be willing to do... who knows. She seems to have this attitude like I'm the only one around that opposes her beliefs, when I don't think she understands in reality that she's the odd duck lol.

It's not even the god thing (I really don't care if she's religious one way or another), but more the fact that she is unwilling to even look at things as they are. It's like the world around here is uninteresting, boring, since it's all "explained" - science, politics, society, etc... just doesn't seem to matter all that much to her since she "has all the answers" but when challenged on those things, she freaks out, gets mad, etc etc...
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18-09-2012, 05:08 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(18-09-2012 01:18 AM)phace_plant Wrote:  Greetings, KingsChosen!

I'm interested in your thoughts of the violent protests in the middle east over the YouTube leak of the upcoming movie "Innocence of Muslims".

No Weeping My hart breaks for them people ,
when Gaddafi was murdered i lost all faith in God .I really can not say I'm a proud American at this moment in life.
(i had to chime in)

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18-09-2012, 05:15 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
You mofos keep using "appeal to authority" then continue to call KC intellectually dishonest? Dodgy

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18-09-2012, 05:15 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I have a question for you, KC... What do you get when you cross an owl with a bungee chord?

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18-09-2012, 09:18 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Unlike the bible and its followers....beleive me or else?
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18-09-2012, 03:52 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Hello KC,

What is the source of your certainty?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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26-09-2012, 03:57 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(14-09-2012 12:09 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Better yet, Kingschosen, let me spin it in a new way. You claim you had a personal experience that "enlightened" you? Well, similarly, those who claim to have been abducted by aliens claim the same thing. Do you believe that it is logical to assume that alien abductions occur because a handful of people claim they were? If not, tell me, what is the difference between your eyewitness testimony and another's?

Do you think it is a possibility that they were hallucinating? It happens to everyone on a regular basis. We see, hear, smell, and feel things that aren't there every day. Our senses are weak. I suggest you read "Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

It is possible that they were abducted by aliens and it's possible that they were hallucinating.

This is why anecdotal evidence is so bad.

This is also why I don't try to argue my anecdotal evidence as fact to anyone. For me it is because of what I experienced; however, I know that others have the right to not believe that and think I'm crazy.

I'm fine with this.

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