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26-09-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(18-09-2012 01:18 AM)phace_plant Wrote:  Greetings, KingsChosen!

I'm interested in your thoughts of the violent protests in the middle east over the YouTube leak of the upcoming movie "Innocence of Muslims".

I don't like violence.

I don't agree with the protests.

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26-09-2012, 03:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(18-09-2012 05:15 AM)frankiej Wrote:  I have a question for you, KC... What do you get when you cross an owl with a bungee chord?

Falling hooters?

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26-09-2012, 04:00 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(18-09-2012 03:52 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Hello KC,

What is the source of your certainty?

I am not certain because of my limited knowledge and lack of being omniscient.

My beliefs come from my personal faith and my personal experiences.

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26-09-2012, 04:08 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-09-2012 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-09-2012 05:15 AM)frankiej Wrote:  I have a question for you, KC... What do you get when you cross an owl with a bungee chord?

Falling hooters?

This holds the true answer!



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27-09-2012, 09:38 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  It is possible that they were abducted by aliens and it's possible that they were hallucinating.

It is much more probable and logical to assume they are hallucinating.

(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is why anecdotal evidence is so bad.

So if it is so bad, why do you not believe in it?

(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is also why I don't try to argue my anecdotal evidence as fact to anyone. For me it is because of what I experienced; however, I know that others have the right to not believe that and think I'm crazy.

Yes, and now I want you to tell me what your "experience" was. Why do you think it is worth believing? You keep stating that you believe because of a "vision", but what motivates you to believe in this "experience". Why do you think it is trustworthy, justified, evidence? Why do you insist on suspending logic and reason?

"My experience" this, "my experience" that. What the fuck did you experience?

(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm fine with this.

Not helping your case at all.

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27-09-2012, 10:11 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-09-2012 09:38 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  It is possible that they were abducted by aliens and it's possible that they were hallucinating.

It is much more probable and logical to assume they are hallucinating.

(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is why anecdotal evidence is so bad.

So if it is so bad, why do you not believe in it?

(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is also why I don't try to argue my anecdotal evidence as fact to anyone. For me it is because of what I experienced; however, I know that others have the right to not believe that and think I'm crazy.

Yes, and now I want you to tell me what your "experience" was. Why do you think it is worth believing? You keep stating that you believe because of a "vision", but what motivates you to believe in this "experience". Why do you think it is trustworthy, justified, evidence? Why do you insist on suspending logic and reason?

"My experience" this, "my experience" that. What the fuck did you experience?

(26-09-2012 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm fine with this.

Not helping your case at all.

I have beat this horse to death.

What I said in this thread.

Evidence for me being elect:

Growing up, I was always embarrassed of Christianity and whenever my parents talked about Jesus. I thought church was silly, and I found the stories nothing more than fantasy.

I finally accepted agnosticism in college as my official belief, and I began to rip Christianity apart with the use of logic and rationality. I would combat Christians on the Internet via forums and use the aforementioned tactics against them to make them look like fools. I was good at it.

Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to a higher power; even though I didn't know whom. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I didn't believe in a God that I could talk to.

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I never wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I was doing it if I didn't choose to. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose it.

The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God; however, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t get a choice. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about election. And then, it made sense. I realized that then reason I didn’t have a choice is because I was never planned to have a choice.

I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice of my own.

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27-09-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
... Which is more or less parallel to John Calvin's own experience of election, as I found out when I read about it.

KC you don't think that maybe humans are evolved to get a bee in their bonnet about some stuff occasionally?
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27-09-2012, 02:05 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-09-2012 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  KC you don't think that maybe humans are evolved to get a bee in their bonnet about some stuff occasionally?

Do what, now?

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27-09-2012, 02:09 PM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2012 07:16 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-09-2012 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 09:38 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  It is much more probable and logical to assume they are hallucinating.


So if it is so bad, why do you not believe in it?


Yes, and now I want you to tell me what your "experience" was. Why do you think it is worth believing? You keep stating that you believe because of a "vision", but what motivates you to believe in this "experience". Why do you think it is trustworthy, justified, evidence? Why do you insist on suspending logic and reason?

"My experience" this, "my experience" that. What the fuck did you experience?


Not helping your case at all.

I have beat this horse to death.

What I said in this thread.

Evidence for me being elect:

Growing up, I was always embarrassed of Christianity and whenever my parents talked about Jesus. I thought church was silly, and I found the stories nothing more than fantasy.

I finally accepted agnosticism in college as my official belief, and I began to rip Christianity apart with the use of logic and rationality. I would combat Christians on the Internet via forums and use the aforementioned tactics against them to make them look like fools. I was good at it.

Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to a higher power; even though I didn't know whom. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I didn't believe in a God that I could talk to.

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I never wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I was doing it if I didn't choose to. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose it.

The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God; however, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t get a choice. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about election. And then, it made sense. I realized that then reason I didn’t have a choice is because I was never planned to have a choice.

I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice of my own.

Wait, what? That is the entire reason you changed your philosophical position? I have experienced that same thing, several times since deconverting. I find myself talking with God all the time, though I don't take it as a sign. I know it as a habit, a subconscious coping mechanism, a hallucination. There are things much more logical, probable, and reasonable than some divinely undetectable power contacting me. I would say to you, "Grow up," but you are older than I am.

I was expecting something far more powerful than that. Jesus fucking titty Christ, KC. You disappoint me.

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27-09-2012, 02:09 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Rolleyes Merkins.

Do you not think that your experience is maybe down to the fact that your highly evolved simian brain has a propensity for irrational belief, which as you yourself prove, is not impediment to reproduction and therefore may be widespread in the gene pool.
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