Ask a Theist!
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08-10-2012, 06:02 PM
Ask a Theist!
(08-10-2012 04:26 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  If I can become an atheist and face this "big, bad, scary" world, surely a grown man can.

And perhaps he may yet. As I said, perhaps some patience is all that is needed.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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08-10-2012, 06:14 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-10-2012 12:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes.

What I said in this thread.

Evidence for me being elect:

Growing up, I was always embarrassed of Christianity and whenever my parents talked about Jesus. I thought church was silly, and I found the stories nothing more than fantasy.

I finally accepted agnosticism in college as my official belief, and I began to rip Christianity apart with the use of logic and rationality. I would combat Christians on the Internet via forums and use the aforementioned tactics against them to make them look like fools. I was good at it.

Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to a higher power; even though I didn't know whom. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I didn't believe in a God that I could talk to.

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I never wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I was doing it if I didn't choose to. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose it.

The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God; however, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t get a choice. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about election. And then, it made sense. I realized that then reason I didn’t have a choice is because I was never planned to have a choice.

I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice of my own.

Pity, I thought there was more to it than what I'd already read. I'm afraid that to me you seem seriously deluded.

While your offering of "evidence" may satisfy you, it explains nothing to me.

Can you at least see why the most logical conclusion anyone on the outside could make would be that you are delusional?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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08-10-2012, 08:43 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I don't believe KC is dilusional. He simply adheres to a widely accepted belief system that so many adhere to. Within that system, which is massive, he is normal.

Moreover, most of us have some dilusion/s we refuse to recognize and get rid of. This is not to suggest all dilusion is pathological.
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08-10-2012, 08:59 PM
Ask a Theist!
(08-10-2012 08:43 PM)depat Wrote:  I don't believe KC is dilusional. He simply adheres to a widely accepted belief system that so many adhere to. Within that system, which is massive, he is normal.

Moreover, most of us have some dilusion/s we refuse to recognize and get rid of. This is not to suggest all dilusion is pathological.

Actually, what you describe is what I believe it means to be delusional: convinced something is true when it is not. That isn't mental illness, it's being wrong when you're convinced you're right.

And yes, most if not all people hold delusions that need to be checked and challenged on a regular basis. Thumbsup

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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08-10-2012, 09:02 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
What is a Calvinist and how would it differ from say... a methodist?

I ate the eleven Hunters before me Smile
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08-10-2012, 11:39 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-10-2012 09:02 PM)TwelfthHunter Wrote:  What is a Calvinist and how would it differ from say... a methodist?

Methodists have the Method. Calvinists have ... Calvin Tongue

John Calvin aka JC aka Jesus Christ was a nauseating man who had an extremely profound religious experience. Based on that he put forward a radical reinterpretation of the then current model for how you were supposed to get to heaven. He also got a rather nice man hanged for daring to contradict him.

There's wikipedia articles about it. Or KC will explain to you. It's a fairly fatalistic philosophy. The core is that you are chosen *from the beginning* to either go to heaven or hell and you have no control over the matter. If you're a heaven bound angel type then you will *by God's will* act in a certain way, including preaching, praying etc. If you're not... well you have a brief meaningless existence in the here and now and then an eternal torment to look forward to later.

The point is, that's a pretty horrible God, even by Christian standards. But Calvinists (or at least KC), while asserting that Mr Invisible is *all powerful* and *all knowing* and so on *do not assert that he is omni-benevolent*. Or at least, the weasel words are "God is not good by human standards". Which is pretty low, for a deity.

But KC himself is a fairly nice guy. And his sins are forgiven him, because his wife is hot.

Edit: Welcome to TTA by the way Smile
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09-10-2012, 07:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-10-2012 08:59 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Actually, what you describe is what I believe it means to be delusional: convinced something is true when it is not. That isn't mental illness, it's being wrong when you're convinced you're right.

There's a difference between believing when you are dealing with uncertainty and believing you are right, even in the face of mountains of evidence against you.

Occasional TTA returner then leaverer.
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09-10-2012, 08:58 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-10-2012 02:30 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(05-10-2012 02:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Do you seriously not if you take away my belief in God?

That's what I'm saying. I am sound, normal, and rational except I had a personal experience that says contrary.
Except that your belief influences your entire life and (partly) defines who you are. You have a Christian wife. You indoctrinate your children into Christianity. You make certain decisions based on your belief. You go to a Christian church. Need I say more? If you take away your belief in god, your entire life as you know it will change. When that actually happens, you can ask that question again.

It doesn't influence my entire life. It influences my beliefs, sure, but my entire life isn't governed by the belief (at least superficially - yes, my entire life is orchestrated by God, but I perceive it as my own).

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09-10-2012, 09:01 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-10-2012 06:48 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 03:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Define "here".

"Here" has been defined. Now please answer my question.

I have answered this many times.

I came here (TTA) because germanyt showed it to me, and it was one of the few places at work that wasn't blocked. We started posting just to pass the down time. As time went on, I enjoyed the community, so I decided to become an active part of it.

Sure, there is the theological stuff that is discussed, but that isn't the reason for me being on TTA. I actually enjoy this place. That's why I'm here.

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09-10-2012, 09:27 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-10-2012 07:23 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(05-10-2012 02:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I am sound, normal, and rational except I had a personal experience that says contrary.

I disagree, from my limited experiences with you, you base your life(belief wise) on something irrational.

Hypothetically:

I had a personal experience with Susanne the Reality Shifting Caps Lock Button, telling me to use CAPS LOCK on all of my future posts.

Should I base my posts on this? Maybe even worship the button, honour it in some way?

Or am I simply being irrational by accepting the experience actually happened?

But, Susanna didn't immediately change the way you thought, believed, and how you lived your life. That happened with me.

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