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22-10-2012, 09:40 PM
Ask a Theist!
(22-10-2012 09:28 PM)Vosur Wrote:  KC, you once said that it would be irrational for anyone else to believe what you do without your damascus road experience. Then why is it that you indoctrinate your children into believing as you do? Consider

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22-10-2012, 11:13 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(22-10-2012 09:28 PM)Vosur Wrote:  KC, you once said that it would be irrational for anyone else to believe what you do without your damascus road experience. Then why is it that you indoctrinate your children into believing as you do? Consider

They all had damascus road experiences at age 0. I mean come on, bright lights, people dressed in white...
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22-10-2012, 11:27 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(22-10-2012 09:28 PM)Vosur Wrote:  KC, you once said that it would be irrational for anyone else to believe what you do without your damascus road experience. Then why is it that you indoctrinate your children into believing as you do? Consider

I said it would be irrational for anyone to believe ME and MY experiences without the same faith... as MY story and MY testimony is illogical without the gift of faith from God. I didn't say they had to have a Damascus Road Experience to believe.

One thing I do not like is when people take what I said out of context and twist my words. Please don't do that again.


God regenerates in a variety of ways... once He regenerates a person, He bestows that faith to them... the faith it takes to believe.

I will teach my children what I believe is truth. From there, it's up to God.

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23-10-2012, 12:09 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(22-10-2012 08:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Humans did not sin until God placed His image on them. Once this was done, the human soul became timeless; capable of judgment.

The human in existence before God enacted His plan were no different than any animal. They were simply in a finite existence.

What are the sources of these beliefs?

and this:

(22-10-2012 11:27 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God regenerates in a variety of ways... once He regenerates a person, He bestows that faith to them... the faith it takes to believe.

Where does this all come from?

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23-10-2012, 12:20 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2012 12:25 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(22-10-2012 11:27 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I said it would be irrational for anyone to believe ME and MY experiences without the same faith... as MY story and MY testimony is illogical without the gift of faith from God. I didn't say they had to have a Damascus Road Experience to believe.

One thing I do not like is when people take what I said out of context and twist my words. Please don't do that again.

God regenerates in a variety of ways... once He regenerates a person, He bestows that faith to them... the faith it takes to believe.

I will teach my children what I believe is truth. From there, it's up to God.
Likewise, I ask you not to accuse me of taking your statements out of context and twisting them on purpose when that was not my intent. I seem to have remembered the part about requiring a damascus road experience incorrectly and you have my apologies for that.

(02-08-2012 11:03 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  It's illogical in the sense of of what is tangible and to others who don't have faith. I have rational/critical thinking and I believe it. I am also going to encourage my children to study and learn and think for themselves to improve their rational and critical thinking skills.
Back then you said that it's illogical to believe in god if you don't have faith. Faith, by definition, is believing something without having evidence to support it. Please don't lie to my face when you say that you encourage your children to think for themselves and learn rational and critical thinking when you take them to church and teach them what you believe to be "the truth" (supposedly that god exists). Have you told your children to question everything you and the church have said about god before accepting it? One thing you should have learned in your time on TTA is that rational and critical thinking leads to nonbelief. Your refusal to think rationally and critically about your damascus road experience, favoring a supernatural explanation over every alternative psychological explanation, is the very reason you are a Calvinist. I'm just asking you to be honest with yourself and others.

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23-10-2012, 07:54 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(23-10-2012 12:09 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  What are the sources of these beliefs?

It is a collective of Reformed Theology with Evolutionary Creationism. Biologos.com touches on this, and it's a conclusion I've come to from the study of science, Ancient Near East history, and Biblical theology.

Quote:Where does this all come from?

Eph 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

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23-10-2012, 08:04 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(23-10-2012 12:20 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Likewise, I ask you not to accuse me of taking your statements out of context and twisting them on purpose when that was not my intent. I seem to have remembered the part about requiring a damascus road experience incorrectly and you have my apologies for that.

I had no other way of interpreting what you wrote. You thought one way which was wrong, but it wasn't done on purpose. I didn't know it wasn't done on purpose, so that is the only way I could interpret it.

A simple "KC, I didn't mean it like that. I must have misunderstood you, I'm sorry." would have sufficed.

I won't ever twist what you say, but with anything contrary to what was said and what was meant, I have no other way of interpreting it.

Quote:Back then you said that it's illogical to believe in god if you don't have faith. Faith, by definition, is believing something without having evidence to support it. Please don't lie to my face when you say that you encourage your children to think for themselves and learn rational and critical thinking when you take them to church and teach them what you believe to be "the truth" (supposedly that god exists). Have you told your children to question everything you and the church have said about god before accepting it? One thing you should have learned in your time on TTA is that rational and critical thinking leads to nonbelief. Your refusal to think rationally and critically about your damascus road experience, favoring a supernatural explanation over every alternative psychological explanation, is the very reason you are a Calvinist. I'm just asking you to be honest with yourself and others.

I'm assuming you don't have children.

I don't want to use the "you don't understand until you have kids" card, but it's absolutely true in this case. Ask any parent... well, any parent that cares for their children. They will do anything in their power to teach them, give them, and provide for them that which they think is the best for them.

This is what I think is best for my children. I will raise them with God because I have God, and I think that is best for my children. My house will always be a house of God, but I will also encourage deep thinking, logic, rationale, and science.

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23-10-2012, 08:17 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2012 08:22 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(23-10-2012 08:04 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I had no other way of interpreting what you wrote. You thought one way which was wrong, but it wasn't done on purpose. I didn't know it wasn't done on purpose, so that is the only way I could interpret it.

A simple "KC, I didn't mean it like that. I must have misunderstood you, I'm sorry." would have sufficed.

I won't ever twist what you say, but with anything contrary to what was said and what was meant, I have no other way of interpreting it.
Rest assured, I agree that it was entirely my fault and I apologize for it. I should have looked up your post before misquoting you. I'm sorry.

(23-10-2012 08:04 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm assuming you don't have children.

I don't want to use the "you don't understand until you have kids" card, but it's absolutely true in this case. Ask any parent... well, any parent that cares for their children. They will do anything in their power to teach them, give them, and provide for them that which they think is the best for them.

This is what I think is best for my children. I will raise them with God because I have God, and I think that is best for my children. My house will always be a house of God, but I will also encourage deep thinking, logic, rationale, and science.
You are correct, I don't have children. That being said, you have not actually touched upon anything I've said, have you?

1. Do you or do you not teach your children to question the church and your authority when it comes to superstition and claims of the supernatural?
2. Do you realize that you are most definetly capable of rational and critical thinking, but that you have not applied these skills to the core foundation of your belief?
3. Do you understand that what you're doing is, if the answer to 1. is "No, I don't", the very definition of indoctrinating your children into believing something that can cripple their ability to think rationally and critically about superstition for a long time?

If you don't want to answer any of my questions, just say so, I can accept that. In fact, I could understand that decision quite well, because they are rather personal and seemingly provocative questions after all.

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23-10-2012, 08:20 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Not surprising that you would raise your kids based off of your views, in the very same way that a vegetarian is likely to raise their kids on a vegetarian diet or how my father-in-law is anti-vaccine and raises his kids without giving them vaccines. Raising them as you see best doesn't mean your right, but it is what feels right to you and the idea is that if it helps you, it can help them. Rational enough I suppose.

Having said that, my wife and I are on opposite sides of the god debate, she a theist me a...well...you know. I have no problems with her taking my son to church or him going to Sunday school. As long as A) it isn't some batshit crazy fundamentalist church (which she has no interest in attending anyways) and B) he only goes if he wants to and C) I be allowed to answer any questions he may have with my honest opinion.

I don't know what your "Damascus Road Experience" was but what will be your opinion if your children decide they don't believe in god? Or at the very least that they don't believe in your god? Will you use this personal experience to try and sway them into believing? Will you tell them to seek out their own experience? What if they are not convinced, or they do not have one, or they rationalize it via an understanding through science rather than faith?

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23-10-2012, 02:38 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(23-10-2012 07:54 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-10-2012 12:09 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  What are the sources of these beliefs?

It is a collective of Reformed Theology with Evolutionary Creationism. Biologos.com touches on this, and it's a conclusion I've come to from the study of science, Ancient Near East history, and Biblical theology.

Quote:Where does this all come from?

Eph 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Let's see, you don't need the Bible or ANE history to understand science.
You need science but don't need the Bible to understand ANE history.
Therefore, you don't need the Bible.


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