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03-11-2012, 03:12 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
How do you tell the difference between what God put in there for you to follow and what God put in for you NOT to follow? What standard do you use?

Since God controls everything, that must mean he put lies and misconceptions as well as truths, but how can you tell which is which if they both come from one source?

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04-11-2012, 01:11 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
“Divines never fail to persuade us, that the enormous distance which separates God and man, necessarily renders the conduct of God a mystery to us, and that we have no right to interrogate our master. Is this answer satisfactory? Since my eternal happiness is at stake, have I not a right to examine the conduct of God himself? It is only in hope of happiness that men submit to the authority of a God. A despot, to whom men submit only through fear, a master, whom they cannot interrogate, a sovereign totally inaccessible, can never merit the homage of intelligent beings. If the conduct of God is a mystery, it is not made for us. Man can neither adore, admire, respect, nor imitate conduct, in which every thing is inconceivable, or, of which he can often form only revolting ideas; unless it is pretended, that we ought to adore every thing of which we are forced to be ignorant, and that every thing, which we do not know, becomes for that reason an object of admiration. Divines! You never cease telling us, that the designs of God are impenetrable; that his ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts our thoughts; that it is absurd to complain of his administration, of the motives and springs of which we are totally ignorant; that it is presumption to tax his judgments with injustice, because we cannot comprehend them. But when you speak in this strain, do you not perceive, that you destroy with your own hands all your profound systems, whose only end is to explain to us the ways of the divinity, which, you say, are impenetrable? Have you penetrated his judgments, his ways, his designs? You dare not assert it, and though you reason about them without end, you do not comprehend them any more than we do. If, by chance, you know the plan of God, which you wish us to admire, while most people find it so little worthy of a just, good, intelligent, and reasonable being, no longer say, this plan is impenetrable. If you are as ignorant of it as we are, have some indulgence for those who ingenuously confess, they comprehend nothing in it, or that they see in it nothing divine. Cease to persecute for opinions, of which you understand nothing yourselves; cease to defame each other for dreams and conjectures, which every thing seems to contradict. Talk to us of things intelligible and really useful to men; and no longer talk to us of the impenetrable ways of God, about which you only stammer and contradict yourselves.

By continually speaking of the immense depths of divine wisdom, forbidding us to sound them, saying it is insolence to cite God before the tribunal of our feeble reason, making it a crime to judge our master, divines teach us nothing but the embarrassment they are in, when it is required to account for the conduct of a God, whose conduct they think marvelous only because they are utterly incapable of comprehending it themselves.”

Excerpt From: Paul Henri Thiry Baron D'Holbach. “Good Sense.”


What do you think of this, KC? I thought it was good enough for me to ask your opinion.

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04-11-2012, 01:51 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-11-2012 01:11 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  “Divines never fail to persuade us, that the enormous distance which separates God and man, necessarily renders the conduct of God a mystery to us, and that we have no right to interrogate our master. Is this answer satisfactory? Since my eternal happiness is at stake, have I not a right to examine the conduct of God himself? It is only in hope of happiness that men submit to the authority of a God. A despot, to whom men submit only through fear, a master, whom they cannot interrogate, a sovereign totally inaccessible, can never merit the homage of intelligent beings. If the conduct of God is a mystery, it is not made for us. Man can neither adore, admire, respect, nor imitate conduct, in which every thing is inconceivable, or, of which he can often form only revolting ideas; unless it is pretended, that we ought to adore every thing of which we are forced to be ignorant, and that every thing, which we do not know, becomes for that reason an object of admiration. Divines! You never cease telling us, that the designs of God are impenetrable; that his ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts our thoughts; that it is absurd to complain of his administration, of the motives and springs of which we are totally ignorant; that it is presumption to tax his judgments with injustice, because we cannot comprehend them. But when you speak in this strain, do you not perceive, that you destroy with your own hands all your profound systems, whose only end is to explain to us the ways of the divinity, which, you say, are impenetrable? Have you penetrated his judgments, his ways, his designs? You dare not assert it, and though you reason about them without end, you do not comprehend them any more than we do. If, by chance, you know the plan of God, which you wish us to admire, while most people find it so little worthy of a just, good, intelligent, and reasonable being, no longer say, this plan is impenetrable. If you are as ignorant of it as we are, have some indulgence for those who ingenuously confess, they comprehend nothing in it, or that they see in it nothing divine. Cease to persecute for opinions, of which you understand nothing yourselves; cease to defame each other for dreams and conjectures, which every thing seems to contradict. Talk to us of things intelligible and really useful to men; and no longer talk to us of the impenetrable ways of God, about which you only stammer and contradict yourselves.

By continually speaking of the immense depths of divine wisdom, forbidding us to sound them, saying it is insolence to cite God before the tribunal of our feeble reason, making it a crime to judge our master, divines teach us nothing but the embarrassment they are in, when it is required to account for the conduct of a God, whose conduct they think marvelous only because they are utterly incapable of comprehending it themselves.”

Excerpt From: Paul Henri Thiry Baron D'Holbach. “Good Sense.”


What do you think of this, KC? I thought it was good enough for me to ask your opinion

You, sir (or madam), have inspired me to read something new. Big Grin

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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04-11-2012, 04:21 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
“You pretend, that God is immutable! What then produces a continual instability in this world, which you make his empire? Is there a state, subject to more frequent and cruel revolutions, than that of this unknown monarch? How can we attribute to an immutable God, sufficiently powerful to give solidity to his works, a government, in which every thing is in continual vicissitude? If I imagine I see a God of uniform character in all the effects favourable to my species, what kind of a God can I see in their continual misfortunes? You tell me, it is our sins, which compel him to punish. I answer, that God, according to yourselves, is then not immutable, since the sins of men force him to change his conduct towards them. Can a being, who is sometimes provoked, and sometimes appeased, be constantly the same?”

Excerpt From: Paul Henri Thiry Baron D'Holbach. “Good Sense.”

I also want your opinion on this as well KC.

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04-11-2012, 06:22 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Fucking A2, how about asking one question at a time? No hogging the pet theist. Big Grin

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04-11-2012, 07:11 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(31-10-2012 01:30 PM)morondog Wrote:  anthropic principle - What do you make of it?

Anthropic principle (my understanding): the fact of live evolving to question why life is so remarkably adapted to conditions in our little corner of the universe - conclusion that the universe is fine tuned for life *cannot* be drawn because in a universe *not* fine tuned for life, life would not be around to ask questions. i.e. the only universes where life attains the ability to question are those which *already* have the correct conditions.

Bum P
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04-11-2012, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2012 04:45 PM by dimitriye98.)
RE: Ask a Theist!

  1. "Pseudomania daemonum" states that there are 6 legions of 66 cohorts divided into 666 companies of 6666 demons. After some multiplication that would belong in hell itself if not for my handy-dandy calculator, the total is 1,758,064,176 demons. Now, 60% of humans in the United States believe that they are going to heaven. Assuming we distribute this sample to all humanity from the dawn of time, we get that 40% of humans, meaning approximately 44,000,000,000 humans will go to hell after death. This means that of the total population of hell only 4% of it would be demons. What do you believe would happen in a human uprising against Satan?
  2. If there is intelligent life among the stars, what is God's opinion of them? Will they go to heaven or to hell?
  3. Do jaywalkers go to hell? By breaking the law aren't they going against authority and therefore incapable of obeying God's word?

"I know one thing, that I know nothing." —Plato
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08-11-2012, 10:26 AM
Ensoulment
Double post.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-11-2012, 10:27 AM
Ensoulment
When does a human get a soul? Why do you think that? On what evidence?

If you believe only from reason, then it is merely your opinion.
If you believe only from scripture, then it is merely someone else's opinion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-11-2012, 01:39 PM
RE: Ensoulment
Does the Earth go around the Sun? Why do you think that? On what evidence?

If you believe only from reason, then it is merely your opinion.
If you believe only from scripture reading, then it is merely someone else's opinion.

Of course the out is that it is peer reviewed and reproducible...
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