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16-11-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-11-2012 07:43 PM)Styrofoam02 Wrote:  I think the biggest questions go like this. (sorry if this has been done already, I didn't read all 194 pages)

1) Is your god a just god?

2) If yes, how does a just god create someone who has absolutely NO way of attaining salvation. If he is born part of the un-elect as it were, he is predestined to go to hell, no? In what way is this just?


3) If a god is unjust in the way I described in #2, why is he worthy of my praise and worship?
1) God is autonomous. His justice is His own. According to human standards, though, no... He does not treat everyone equally.

2) Like I said, He is not just in that way. The non-elect were created in accordance to sin - sin had to occur; therefore, there had to be non-elect. This fulfills Christ's purpose.

3) To me, yes. If God is truly omnipotence, omniscient, and omnipresent, then I could never understand or comprehend the entire scope of His plan. I could only judge a small portion of what I know and see, so this makes me unqualified in judging Him. Since He is infinite, He is worthy of praise, as nothing greater could ever be.

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16-11-2012, 10:22 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-11-2012 10:25 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 09:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I didn't say that God put scripture in the Bible that is corrupted. I think scripture is relative to the audience. God had inspired "scripture" for different people throughout different times. Our inspired scripture is the Bible... for us.

As for deciphering what's for us and what's for others, I think it's a simple as understanding the audience. Specific instructions are meant for the specific audience; however, that doesn't mean we can't glean anything from it. Likewise, scripture about God holds true no matter to whom it is addressed.

And yes, God orchestrated misconceptions because He orchestrated sin. He created His plan with sin; therefore, sin HAS to corrupt... everything. But then, I know your question is, "Why didn't He just create it perfect, so it wouldn't be corrupted?"

Because that's not according to His plan. If that was the case, then sin wouldn't corrupt, thus erasing the need for Christ.
There is no "need" for Christ, seeing as he is an all powerful being, such as there is no need for sin. He could make the would perfect and still have Christ sacrifice himself. Such as the will of the being.

Thus, the simple truth is, God WANTED sin, not NEEDED sin. He wanted suffering, and death, and pitiless extermination of people's that we can not judge, nor condemn for they are unknown to us.

Christ is not bound by sin, and he doesn't NEED sin, for he is all powerful.

Thus, I dare say that you have to admit that Christ could still have the same purpose and endgame even if the world IS PERFECT because God can make it so.

KC, scripture can't be relative to the person because it is not the persons perspective, but the perspective God instilled in him/her, and planned for it. A human has no responsibility for anything, and that include views on the bible.

When talking about an allpowerful God, there is no such thing as NEED.
No, there is no "need". I used these words for simplicity's sake. You like to argue semantics a lot.

The plan was always there. Just like God. The plan wasn't "created". It always was - because God is infinite and infinite in knowledge - so His plan had to be as well. There was no "need" because it just "was". When dealing with infinity, the perspective of events has to change.

Does that make sense?

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16-11-2012, 10:24 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:15 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 10:14 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The elect can detect God because He is present with them.

I do believe in miracles. Yes they occur - as to their frequency - I don't know.

A miracle would be defined as something happening that defies natural laws.
Have you personally seen or experienced a miracle, defined as something that happened that defied natural laws?
Yes.

But I'm not discussing it.

It's something I only discuss with my brother and my wife.

Sorry, some of my life must remain private.

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16-11-2012, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2012 10:37 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:22 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Does that make sense?
At first I was like:

[Image: tumblr_m1oh50lcV51r614uo.gif]

But then I was like:

[Image: tumblr_mdjhv9YaPE1rckfheo1_400.gif]

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16-11-2012, 10:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 10:15 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you personally seen or experienced a miracle, defined as something that happened that defied natural laws?
Yes.

But I'm not discussing it.

It's something I only discuss with my brother and my wife.

Sorry, some of my life must remain private.
The time your penis grew back? We already knew about that one. No need to be embarrassed.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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16-11-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 10:15 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you personally seen or experienced a miracle, defined as something that happened that defied natural laws?
Yes.

But I'm not discussing it.

It's something I only discuss with my brother and my wife.

Sorry, some of my life must remain private.
Okay, your mystery experience aside, do you think your experience is unique or common among Believers?

I ask because I used to believe in miracles. I had several I could attest to. Then the more I thought about it, they weren't miracles, they were just incredible. But there wasn't anything in those things I thought were miracles that couldn't also be explained by natural laws.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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16-11-2012, 10:30 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:24 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 10:22 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Does that make sense?

[Image: tumblr_mdjhv9YaPE1rckfheo1_400.gif]
Okay... let me try to explain it.

God is infinite (always was - no beginning, no end)
God is all knowing (knows everything in the most absolute way)

Since God has no beginning or end and neither does His knowledge, then His plan was "created". His plan is infinite as well. Remember the line and ray analogy?

God is a line - inside the God line there is the Plan line. It just always was and is like God. So, there was no "needs" there was only "is".

His plan for sin and Christ wasn't needed by God; however, it was His plan that has always been in place.

That's why I use the world "fulfill".

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16-11-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:27 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 10:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes.

But I'm not discussing it.

It's something I only discuss with my brother and my wife.

Sorry, some of my life must remain private.
Okay, your mystery experience aside, do you think your experience is unique or common among Believers?

I ask because I used to believe in miracles. I had several I could attest to. Then the more I thought about it, they weren't miracles, they were just incredible. But there wasn't anything in those things I thought were miracles that couldn't also be explained by natural laws.
No, I don't think they are unique or common, and yes, I believe that most can be explained naturally and are just incredible events (planned by God Wink)

This is the same vein as what I said about demon possession. 99% of possessions are a mental illness.

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16-11-2012, 10:36 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 10:27 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Okay, your mystery experience aside, do you think your experience is unique or common among Believers?

I ask because I used to believe in miracles. I had several I could attest to. Then the more I thought about it, they weren't miracles, they were just incredible. But there wasn't anything in those things I thought were miracles that couldn't also be explained by natural laws.
No, I don't think they are unique or common, and yes, I believe that most can be explained naturally and are just incredible events (planned by God Wink)

This is the same vein as what I said about demon possession. 99% of possessions are a mental illness.
You make Benny Hinn very sad. No

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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16-11-2012, 10:39 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 07:43 PM)Styrofoam02 Wrote:  I think the biggest questions go like this. (sorry if this has been done already, I didn't read all 194 pages)

1) Is your god a just god?

2) If yes, how does a just god create someone who has absolutely NO way of attaining salvation. If he is born part of the un-elect as it were, he is predestined to go to hell, no? In what way is this just?


3) If a god is unjust in the way I described in #2, why is he worthy of my praise and worship?
1) God is autonomous. His justice is His own. According to human standards, though, no... He does not treat everyone equally.

2) Like I said, He is not just in that way. The non-elect were created in accordance to sin - sin had to occur; therefore, there had to be non-elect. This fulfills Christ's purpose.

3) To me, yes. If God is truly omnipotence, omniscient, and omnipresent, then I could never understand or comprehend the entire scope of His plan. I could only judge a small portion of what I know and see, so this makes me unqualified in judging Him. Since He is infinite, He is worthy of praise, as nothing greater could ever be.

Once more, i take issue with something here.

Putting aside the total lack of a need for Christ for the time being that is.

Simply by saying that the scope of your Atrocity's plan is beyond comprehension, implies comprehension and a knowledge that it is far too vast for your puny, human mind to understand. Not to mention that you understand it is male... somehow, in spite is it's supposed perfection.

And no. No, No, No. "He" is not worthy of praise. Praising something pure merit of existence is pathetic to say the least, simply because something exists (which in this case is highly unlikely) does not, in anyway mean that it should be praised, in fact if you god does exist, it should be reviled Mothers should use it as a Boogieman faerie tale to frighten disobedient children.

I submit to you sir, that no greater evil could ever be.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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