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16-11-2012, 03:49 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:37 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  But God could simply make all sin not affect anybody BUT yourself, or nobody at all.

If sin didn't affect some and only affect others, there would be a need for salvation or redemption. If sin only affects the elect, then they are redeemed. If it doesn't touch the non-elect, then they are perfect and without sin; thus redeemed. This would remove Christ's purpose.

God also states that sin affect the entire world.

Quote:There is no need for suffering, even if there is sin.

Yes it does. Suffering is a side effect of sin. If sin happens, suffering is inevitable.

Quote:Sounds like your God is a Sadist, and yes, of the most extreme kind because he is responsible for everything bad, and I mean everything. He is the worst kind of monster, and he should be shunned, and abandoned because his plan is filled with hardships that need not to be there in the first place.

Yes, He is responsible for everything. Again, the plan is infinite, and the plan of Christ's redemption always was. Hardships are a result of the sin. All of it is centered around Christ's purpose.

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16-11-2012, 03:53 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 02:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No one can "just" have faith in God.

Eph 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

To believe in God, you first must be given the gift of faith.

This isn't really answering my question. Firstly, we haven't yet established (for me) that this is necessarily a god. Secondly, if this sentience is sufficiently powerful (and the level of power you are attributing to it far exceeds the level of power I am suggesting) it could simply implant the idea that you believe, trust and have faith in it.


(16-11-2012 02:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hmmm, I think I see what you're saying.

ie - How can I know if Christianity and the belief in the Christian God is a deception or not; and say for instance, that the God of Islam is really God and we're being deceived by a malevolent force under the authority of the Islamic God?

Under that premise, I have no way of knowing. But, if the God allows for me to be deceived, then there isn't anything I can do about it, unfortunately.
So then it's a possibility you have been deceived? To me you don't seem to treat it as though it's a possible mistake. You seem to be living your life under the assumption your interpretations of the stimuli are accurate. I will grant that this could be said of almost every human on earth. But, most humans have turned to the practice of testing their assumptions of stimuli for their accuracy (science). I'm not seeing posts from you that explain any tests you performed (or had someone else perform) in attempts to measure the accuracy of your interpretations.


(16-11-2012 02:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I changed from not believing in God to believing in God.

I'm trying to understand the process you went through to get from points A to B. But, if you prefer not to discuss it, I understand.

(16-11-2012 02:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I believe in evolution.

You turned to your understanding of evolution in an attempt to understand this perceived presence? Did you or anyone else use the scientific method in an attempt to understand what you were going through? I'm not yet getting the sense that you did a lot of rigorous testing, but that's probably because you're not going into a lot of detail in your answers. Are you tired of answering my questions? I can stop if you prefer. I thought you enjoyed answering them, but when I get terse response like the above I get the feeling you're "done with me." Am I misunderstanding?

(16-11-2012 02:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Cluster headaches from taking medicine.
Sorry to hear that. Does anyone know why you were getting them? What were you taking for them?

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16-11-2012, 03:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I don't want to know, feel, or experience anything unpleasant for all eternity.

You won't. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-11-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 03:33 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  So god can edit your memories to make you forget unpleasant things? And you're cool with that?
When dealing with eternity? Absolutely.

I don't want to know, feel, or experience anything unpleasant for all eternity.
So here's a question then. If you could live in a virtual reality that appeared to be eternal, where you didn't know, feel, or experience anything unpleasant, and appealed to all of your ideas of paradise... But the physical you was just strapped in a chair withering away... Would you submit yourself to that?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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16-11-2012, 03:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
CM, sorry for being terse.

I've just answer these questions multiple times.

I'll go into more details.

Again, sorry.

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16-11-2012, 04:03 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  CM, sorry for being terse.

I've just answer these questions multiple times.

I'll go into more details.

Again, sorry.
It's OK, man. I know I'm digging into stuff that's likely been answered before. In fact, any time you feel the correct response is a link to another post feel free. I don't mind. I'm not trying to be a pest, just trying to understand what you went through. I've read other threads you've pointed me to before and have usually been left with more questions. I also know I'm new to this process of interrogation. Thanks for being patient with me. You're also answering an awful lot all at once. If I were in your position it'd be affecting me a bit I imagine. You hold up to this scrutiny (from all of us) amazingly well.

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16-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  CM, sorry for being terse.

I've just answer these questions multiple times.

I'll go into more details.

Again, sorry.

Make sure Chas gets his royalties for using his patented terseness. Tongue

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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16-11-2012, 04:07 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-12-2011 09:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  From this thread.

Evidence for me being elect:

Growing up, I was always embarrassed of Christianity and whenever my parents talked about Jesus. I thought church was silly, and I found the stories nothing more than fantasy.

I finally accepted agnosticism in college as my official belief, and I began to rip Christianity apart with the use of logic and rationality. I would combat Christians on the Internet via forums and use the aforementioned tactics against them to make them look like fools. I was good at it.

Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to a higher power; even though I didn't know whom. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I didn't believe in a God that I could talk to.

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I never wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I was doing it if I didn't choose to. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose it.

The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God; however, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t get a choice. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about election. And then, it made sense. I realized that then reason I didn’t have a choice is because I was never planned to have a choice.

I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice of my own.

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16-11-2012, 04:09 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 04:03 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  CM, sorry for being terse.

I've just answer these questions multiple times.

I'll go into more details.

Again, sorry.
It's OK, man. I know I'm digging into stuff that's likely been answered before. In fact, any time you feel the correct response is a link to another post feel free. I don't mind. I'm not trying to be a pest, just trying to understand what you went through. I've read other threads you've pointed me to before and have usually been left with more questions. I also know I'm new to this process of interrogation. Thanks for being patient with me. You're also answering an awful lot all at once. If I were in your position it'd be affecting me a bit I imagine. You hold up to this scrutiny (from all of us) amazingly well.
I appreciate the understanding.

I posted a previous post about me being elect.

I'll answer your other questions in more detail tonight.

I'm getting off work right now, so they will have to wait : /

Sorry.

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16-11-2012, 04:10 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 04:09 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 04:03 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  It's OK, man. I know I'm digging into stuff that's likely been answered before. In fact, any time you feel the correct response is a link to another post feel free. I don't mind. I'm not trying to be a pest, just trying to understand what you went through. I've read other threads you've pointed me to before and have usually been left with more questions. I also know I'm new to this process of interrogation. Thanks for being patient with me. You're also answering an awful lot all at once. If I were in your position it'd be affecting me a bit I imagine. You hold up to this scrutiny (from all of us) amazingly well.
I appreciate the understanding.

I posted a previous post about me being elect.

I'll answer your other questions in more detail tonight.

I'm getting off work right now, so they will have to wait : /

Sorry.
Nothing to be sorry for, man. Take your time.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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