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16-11-2012, 04:30 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Do you think that everyone who lived before John Calvin got it (= Bible interpretation) wrong? If so, why do you think that is?

(Take the question for what it is. My only motivation is curiosity.)

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16-11-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:49 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 03:37 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  But God could simply make all sin not affect anybody BUT yourself, or nobody at all.

If sin didn't affect some and only affect others, there would be a need for salvation or redemption. If sin only affects the elect, then they are redeemed. If it doesn't touch the non-elect, then they are perfect and without sin; thus redeemed. This would remove Christ's purpose.

God also states that sin affect the entire world.

Quote:There is no need for suffering, even if there is sin.

Yes it does. Suffering is a side effect of sin. If sin happens, suffering is inevitable.

Quote:Sounds like your God is a Sadist, and yes, of the most extreme kind because he is responsible for everything bad, and I mean everything. He is the worst kind of monster, and he should be shunned, and abandoned because his plan is filled with hardships that need not to be there in the first place.

Yes, He is responsible for everything. Again, the plan is infinite, and the plan of Christ's redemption always was. Hardships are a result of the sin. All of it is centered around Christ's purpose.
You are missing the point. Can God make sin, but not suffering? If he can, then he should have.

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17-11-2012, 05:41 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
how can you be religious in light of how much the bible had to revise in light of scientific discovery
the church has been proven wrong on every thing thus far and the things that remain are gaps in human knowledge
(im just curious how you can hold to a belief in light of all that )

and also what is your take on evolution are you a creationists

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17-11-2012, 05:45 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-11-2012 05:41 AM)dj-hato Wrote:  how can you be religious in light of how much the bible had to revise in light of scientific discovery
the church has been proven wrong on every thing thus far and the things that remain are gaps in human knowledge
(im just curious how you can hold to a belief in light of all that )

and also what is your take on evolution are you a creationists


Oh god, here we go.

Get your head ready for an insanity caused aneurysm, man...

Tinfoil hats on, gentlemen!

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17-11-2012, 05:58 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-11-2012 05:45 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 05:41 AM)dj-hato Wrote:  how can you be religious in light of how much the bible had to revise in light of scientific discovery
the church has been proven wrong on every thing thus far and the things that remain are gaps in human knowledge
(im just curious how you can hold to a belief in light of all that )

and also what is your take on evolution are you a creationists


Oh god, here we go.

Get your head ready for an insanity caused aneurysm, man...

Tinfoil hats on, gentlemen!
i do not intend to debate i am asking that to every theists to get a baseline in reasoning
im curious thats all i have no intention of refuting any claims
just a answer that is it

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17-11-2012, 06:09 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-11-2012 05:58 AM)dj-hato Wrote:  just a answer that is it
I suppose I can save KC the time of answering by pointing you towards the already existing ones.

(17-11-2012 05:41 AM)dj-hato Wrote:  how can you be religious in light of how much the bible had to revise in light of scientific discovery
the church has been proven wrong on every thing thus far and the things that remain are gaps in human knowledge
(im just curious how you can hold to a belief in light of all that )

(16-11-2012 02:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  My theology could be affected by a number of reasons; however, Biblical alignment takes precedence over science, history, logic, rationale, etc
(16-11-2012 02:26 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Also, keep in mind, the Bible doesn't teach science nor tries to teach science. It conveys the science of its day. So, I don't take Biblical science over modern science - I take the theology of God conveyed in the Bible to explain modern science.

(17-11-2012 05:41 AM)dj-hato Wrote:  and also what is your take on evolution are you a creationists
KC describes himself as Evolutionary Creationist.

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17-11-2012, 09:21 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 02:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  My theology could be affected by a number of reasons; however, Biblical alignment takes precedence over science, history, logic, rationale, etc

This is the place where reason fails. KC, it's time to stop claiming that you are a critical thinker. No critical thinker would ever say this.

This is a failure of reason, a failure of intellectual honesty.

You are irrational.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 10:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 07:43 PM)Styrofoam02 Wrote:  I think the biggest questions go like this. (sorry if this has been done already, I didn't read all 194 pages)

1) Is your god a just god?

2) If yes, how does a just god create someone who has absolutely NO way of attaining salvation. If he is born part of the un-elect as it were, he is predestined to go to hell, no? In what way is this just?


3) If a god is unjust in the way I described in #2, why is he worthy of my praise and worship?
1) God is autonomous. His justice is His own. According to human standards, though, no... He does not treat everyone equally.

2) Like I said, He is not just in that way. The non-elect were created in accordance to sin - sin had to occur; therefore, there had to be non-elect. This fulfills Christ's purpose.

3) To me, yes. If God is truly omnipotence, omniscient, and omnipresent, then I could never understand or comprehend the entire scope of His plan. I could only judge a small portion of what I know and see, so this makes me unqualified in judging Him. Since He is infinite, He is worthy of praise, as nothing greater could ever be.
1) You don't see this as a cop out? Did God not write morality on our hearts? Why then, does the morality he writes on our hearts in regards to fairness and Justice contradict his very own morality?

2) Do you not see this as just a way to pat yourself on the spiritual back? "I am better than you are because I am of the elect." And as a continuation of number 1, how can you bring this sense of moral justice in your own life into alignment with God's sense of justice? If God tells you to love your neighbor as yourself, but then creates ETERNAL BEINGS for no other purpose than to be tortured for eternity, do you not see an inherent contradiction there?

3) If a truly omnipotent god existed as you suggest, why did his plan include the presence of evil? Why, if he is omniscient did he create Satan to begin with, knowing full well that he would corrupt the rest of his creation and force him to come to earth as a human being and die? To go one step further, Why have this Rube Goldberg machine type plan when a supposedly all powerful and all knowing god could just create it and skip it? You say that sin was always in God's plan, but if God hates sin and cannot be in the presence of sin, Why create sin to begin with?
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21-11-2012, 11:17 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:53 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  This isn't really answering my question. Firstly, we haven't yet established (for me) that this is necessarily a god. Secondly, if this sentience is sufficiently powerful (and the level of power you are attributing to it far exceeds the level of power I am suggesting) it could simply implant the idea that you believe, trust and have faith in it.

That is essentially what I'm saying. God does implant that into His believers. That's what I'm saying when I say it's a "gift". Only the ones that have been given faith can have faith.


Quote:So then it's a possibility you have been deceived? To me you don't seem to treat it as though it's a possible mistake. You seem to be living your life under the assumption your interpretations of the stimuli are accurate. I will grant that this could be said of almost every human on earth. But, most humans have turned to the practice of testing their assumptions of stimuli for their accuracy (science). I'm not seeing posts from you that explain any tests you performed (or had someone else perform) in attempts to measure the accuracy of your interpretations.

Oh, anything is possible. However, my personal evidence points me towards there being a Christian God. But, I can never be sure of anything because I'm not omniscient. This is where faith comes into play... and the giving of faith to me by God. Faith fills the gaps of certainty and empirical evidence / knowledge.

Quote:You turned to your understanding of evolution in an attempt to understand this perceived presence? Did you or anyone else use the scientific method in an attempt to understand what you were going through? I'm not yet getting the sense that you did a lot of rigorous testing, but that's probably because you're not going into a lot of detail in your answers. Are you tired of answering my questions? I can stop if you prefer. I thought you enjoyed answering them, but when I get terse response like the above I get the feeling you're "done with me." Am I misunderstanding?

I actually did. I didn't want to believe that something supernatural happened. I considered all options, and through my evidence, I came to a conclusion.

Quote:Sorry to hear that. Does anyone know why you were getting them? What were you taking for them?

Yeah. I started out taking regular migraine medicine and supplementing Excedrin. The Excedrin supplementation created rebound headaches. To combat these, the doctors put me on hydrocodone. This made things worse. I was finally able to stop all medications and my body returned to normal. I still get migraines, but it's treatable.

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21-11-2012, 11:19 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-11-2012 03:58 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 03:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  When dealing with eternity? Absolutely.

I don't want to know, feel, or experience anything unpleasant for all eternity.
So here's a question then. If you could live in a virtual reality that appeared to be eternal, where you didn't know, feel, or experience anything unpleasant, and appealed to all of your ideas of paradise... But the physical you was just strapped in a chair withering away... Would you submit yourself to that?
Of course.

If I didn't know I was withering away and my mind thought I was in paradise, what difference would it make?

Physical pain and suffering is relative to how your brain interprets it.

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