Ask a Theist!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 9 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-11-2012, 12:45 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 12:40 PM)Rum Wrote:  By your own admission there are inaccuracies some may well be human error when writing it down originally however considering that a lot of emphasis is sometimes placed on the individual wording of the bible it is fair to point out that if some errors exist then there is no way to know what is actually Gods word and what may be in error.
No. That's not what I said. The Bible is not literally inerrant in terms of science, etc. Everything it says is intentional and inspired.

Interpreting what the original Hebrew and Greek actually said and meant is important because those words are inspired.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:50 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Did you actually read any of those contradictions, there are verses in the bible that say the exact opposite of each other. ?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:51 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 11:23 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-11-2012 08:30 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  You are missing the point. Can God make sin, but not suffering? If he can, then he should have.
Yes, He can.

But, like I said, God is also a God of order.

If God created sin, sin must have consequences, or its purpose would be moot.
It's purpose wouldn't be moot if an all powerful being decided it isn't.

How come you claim God is unjudgable, yet you are now judging him to be a God of Order?

If you commit a Sin, then God knows you are destined to go to hell, there is no need for other people to be dragged into the bad mistakes or intentional bad actions you have committed.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:51 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 12:50 PM)Rum Wrote:  Did you actually read any of those contradictions, there are verses in the bible that say the exact opposite of each other. ?
Yes, I did.

I've read it several times.

Again, which ones would you like me to address?

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
EXO 33:11, And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
----------------------------------
EXO 33:18, And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. ... 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.


There is one that is repeated a few times in the bible i believe john also states no one hath seen the lord
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 01:03 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 12:51 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(21-11-2012 11:23 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, He can.

But, like I said, God is also a God of order.

If God created sin, sin must have consequences, or its purpose would be moot.
It's purpose wouldn't be moot if an all powerful being decided it isn't.

How come you claim God is unjudgable, yet you are now judging him to be a God of Order?

If you commit a Sin, then God knows you are destined to go to hell, there is no need for other people to be dragged into the bad mistakes or intentional bad actions you have committed.
I'm not judging God. I'm relaying the information given to us. If God is a God of order, then sin has consequences.

1 Cor 14:33
for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

The world for confusion means "a state of disorder".

Sin has to affect everyone. If sin only affected the non-elect, then the elect wouldn't need to be redeemed and the non-elect couldn't be redeemed because the atonement wasn't for them. So, Christ's sacrifice would be pointless.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 01:15 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 12:59 PM)Rum Wrote:  EXO 33:11, And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
----------------------------------
EXO 33:18, And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. ... 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

There is one that is repeated a few times in the bible i believe john also states no one hath seen the lord
In verse 33:11 it means to be in the presence of or to be standing before (in front of). The word is pā·nîm

Edit: So, the verse is saying that Moses and God stood before each other and faced each other.

In verse 20 it literally means "face". The word is pā·nāy;

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 01:19 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 01:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(21-11-2012 12:51 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  It's purpose wouldn't be moot if an all powerful being decided it isn't.

How come you claim God is unjudgable, yet you are now judging him to be a God of Order?

If you commit a Sin, then God knows you are destined to go to hell, there is no need for other people to be dragged into the bad mistakes or intentional bad actions you have committed.
I'm not judging God. I'm relaying the information given to us. If God is a God of order, then sin has consequences.

1 Cor 14:33
for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

The world for confusion means "a state of disorder".

Sin has to affect everyone. If sin only affected the non-elect, then the elect wouldn't need to be redeemed and the non-elect couldn't be redeemed because the atonement wasn't for them. So, Christ's sacrifice would be pointless.
I never said it doesn't affect the elect, all I am saying is the easiest, most pain free way to do it is if only the person who committed the sin is affected.

As for your God of Order comment: Fair enough, but do you concede that some of the bible could be wrong? Or is it all right all of the time because God planned it to be that way. If God planned it to be filled with mistakes, what is to say that title is not a mistake?

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 01:19 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(21-11-2012 01:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not judging God. I'm relaying the information given to us. If God is a God of order, then sin has consequences.

1 Cor 14:33
for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

The world for confusion means "a state of disorder".

Sin has to affect everyone. If sin only affected the non-elect, then the elect wouldn't need to be redeemed and the non-elect couldn't be redeemed because the atonement wasn't for them. So, Christ's sacrifice would be pointless.
I never said it doesn't affect the elect, all I am saying is the easiest, most pain free way to do it is if only the person who committed the sin is affected.

As for your God of Order comment: Fair enough, but do you concede that some of the bible could be wrong? Or is it all right all of the time because God planned it to be that way. If God planned it to be filled with mistakes, what is to say that title is not a mistake?
Okay, maybe I'm confused at to what you're asking as far as the sin stuff goes. Could you reask this?

Also, no, as I told Rum, the teachings of the Bible aren't inaccurate... and neither are the words of the Bible. All of that is accurate and inspired. This had to be accurate in order for instructions to be conveyed. An afterthought is the science... science in conveyed in terms as the people understood it. It is of no relevance to what is being taught.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 01:40 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(21-11-2012 01:27 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(21-11-2012 01:19 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I never said it doesn't affect the elect, all I am saying is the easiest, most pain free way to do it is if only the person who committed the sin is affected.

As for your God of Order comment: Fair enough, but do you concede that some of the bible could be wrong? Or is it all right all of the time because God planned it to be that way. If God planned it to be filled with mistakes, what is to say that title is not a mistake?
Okay, maybe I'm confused at to what you're asking as far as the sin stuff goes. Could you reask this?

Also, no, as I told Rum, the teachings of the Bible aren't inaccurate... and neither are the words of the Bible. All of that is accurate and inspired. This had to be accurate in order for instructions to be conveyed. An afterthought is the science... science in conveyed in terms as the people understood it. It is of no relevance to what is being taught.
Can God make sin effect only the Sinners, thus removing the needless suffering, and pain and misery that good, innocent(of this sin in particular) people must suffer because of another person's actions?

Like if a person stole from another person, couldn't God reimburse what got stolen, thus removing the suffering of the family in which the things got stolen from? Then the sinner, if he does not repent( because God planned him not to) can go to hell because he committed the sin and that is HIS punishment for it? That seems like a better way to go at it then let innocents suffer the crimes of the guilty.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: