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26-11-2012, 10:15 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:11 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 09:49 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Why must perfection be just and fair?

People serve a purpose.

Back to the children, mentally retarded, etc...

I don't know if there is a magic number... that is all relative to the person's understanding.
Because perfection means without flaw. Something that is unjust is flawed.
I know, but why is it flawed to be unjust?

The plan is being served perfectly, and His plan is perfect. We serve a purpose, and that purpose is perfect.

Edit: Besides, "justice" is completely relative and without a standard... much like morality.

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26-11-2012, 10:20 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Your argument is circular. It's perfect because it's God's plan. How do you define perfect? Well, anything that is in God's plan, is by definition, perfect. Even if it would be viewed an an imperfect thing otherwise. And around, and around.
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26-11-2012, 10:21 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:20 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  Your argument is circular. It's perfect because it's God's plan. How do you define perfect? Well, anything that is in God's plan, is by definition, perfect. Even if it would be viewed an an imperfect thing otherwise. And around, and around.
And he will admit to the illogic, saying that it is not his place to understand the illogic of God. The excuse itself is circular as well. This is why I believe that Kingschosen is nearing atheism, because if he is not then he is no better than Hovind.

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26-11-2012, 10:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:20 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  Your argument is circular. It's perfect because it's God's plan. How do you define perfect? Well, anything that is in God's plan, is by definition, perfect. Even if it would be viewed an an imperfect thing otherwise. And around, and around.
If God is omnipotent, then yes... yes, anything He does is perfect.

How do I accept that God is perfect? Back to the faith thing.

How do I get faith? From God.

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26-11-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
It's funny, Theists wonder how those of us who do not believe in a "higher power" have purpose in life. I would wonder more about people like KC. I would think that a feeling that everything is predestined, that one has no free will or choice in life, would lead to a complete lack of inertia, and a feeling of helplessness. So much more interesting to know that we have choices, and to look to discover more about the amazing natural intricacies of our world. I'm sure KC would disagree with my assessment, but having everything be predestined takes the responsibility for one's decisions out of everything. Which, to me, would also sap out much of the joy of life.

Hope that made sense...
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26-11-2012, 10:28 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:20 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  Your argument is circular. It's perfect because it's God's plan. How do you define perfect? Well, anything that is in God's plan, is by definition, perfect. Even if it would be viewed an an imperfect thing otherwise. And around, and around.
If God is omnipotent, then yes... yes, anything He does is perfect.

How do I accept that God is perfect? Back to the faith thing.

How do I get faith? From God.
Circling the drain. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-11-2012, 10:29 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:21 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:20 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  Your argument is circular. It's perfect because it's God's plan. How do you define perfect? Well, anything that is in God's plan, is by definition, perfect. Even if it would be viewed an an imperfect thing otherwise. And around, and around.
And he will admit to the illogic, saying that it is not his place to understand the illogic of God. The excuse itself is circular as well. This is why I believe that Kingschosen is nearing atheism, because if he is not then he is no better than Hovind.
I guess I'm no better than Hovind then.

Ask Erxy, Stark, or Lucradis... my time served here has weirdly strengthen my Christianity.

I've moved a couple of decimal points closer to a 1 on the Dawkin's Scale. Now, I'll never be a 1 (I don't think a 1 or 7 are possible), but I can move closer.

I do believe I will always remain an agnostic theist, though.

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26-11-2012, 10:30 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC, do you believe in souls?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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26-11-2012, 10:33 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:27 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  It's funny, Theists wonder how those of us who do not believe in a "higher power" have purpose in life. I would wonder more about people like KC. I would think that a feeling that everything is predestined, that one has no free will or choice in life, would lead to a complete lack of inertia, and a feeling of helplessness. So much more interesting to know that we have choices, and to look to discover more about the amazing natural intricacies of our world. I'm sure KC would disagree with my assessment, but having everything be predestined takes the responsibility for one's decisions out of everything. Which, to me, would also sap out much of the joy of life.

Hope that made sense...
No, it makes perfect sense. I get that.

But... for whatever reason... it just doesn't happen that way. God gives us perception, and implants joy on us. See, we can deny the plan God has... if we talk to someone about God it's because God planned it. If we have joy, it's because God planned it. If I perceive anything as a choice, it's because God planned for me to interpret that situation that way.

I know, though, that it's all predestined, and that gives me liberation. I know I could never do anything better than God does it, so all the events in my life have been planned by God to create my perception of this life.

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26-11-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:30 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  KC, do you believe in souls?
Yes. This is another topic that has been beat pretty badly... but, I'll go along with it Big Grin

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