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26-11-2012, 10:36 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I guess I'm no better than Hovind then.
Then we have very little to ever discuss.

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26-11-2012, 10:37 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:36 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I guess I'm no better than Hovind then.
Then we have very little to ever discuss.
/sadface

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26-11-2012, 10:40 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:27 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  It's funny, Theists wonder how those of us who do not believe in a "higher power" have purpose in life. I would wonder more about people like KC. I would think that a feeling that everything is predestined, that one has no free will or choice in life, would lead to a complete lack of inertia, and a feeling of helplessness. So much more interesting to know that we have choices, and to look to discover more about the amazing natural intricacies of our world. I'm sure KC would disagree with my assessment, but having everything be predestined takes the responsibility for one's decisions out of everything. Which, to me, would also sap out much of the joy of life.

Hope that made sense...
No, it makes perfect sense. I get that.

But... for whatever reason... it just doesn't happen that way. God gives us perception, and implants joy on us. See, we can deny the plan God has... if we talk to someone about God it's because God planned it. If we have joy, it's because God planned it. If I perceive anything as a choice, it's because God planned for me to interpret that situation that way.

I know, though, that it's all predestined, and that gives me liberation. I know I could never do anything better than God does it, so all the events in my life have been planned by God to create my perception of this life.
This all sounds so egocentric. There's this God who obviously wasted a whole lot of time planning out this world, and anything that anyone ever said or thought or did? Then after planning it, he makes it all happen? For what, a bunch of somewhat advanced animals on a little speck of startdust? Seems like an inordinate amount of effort on God's part. Are we really that important? And if he plans everything, what is then the point of making it all happen? And how can anyone be held responsible for their actions, if God plans it anyway? Why would you punish those who did what you made them do in the first place? Makes him sound like a very grandiose and crazy puppeteer with way too much time on his hands...
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26-11-2012, 10:41 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:37 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:36 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Then we have very little to ever discuss.
/sadface
Nothing to be /sadface'd about concerning my refusal of further discussion. What should be grieved for is your lack of reason regarding a very basic theological concept.

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26-11-2012, 10:43 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC -- I challenge you:
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...llenge-you

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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26-11-2012, 11:10 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:41 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:37 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  /sadface
Nothing to be /sadface'd about concerning my refusal of further discussion. What should be grieved for is your lack of reason regarding a very basic theological concept.
Which is?

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26-11-2012, 11:11 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:21 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  And he will admit to the illogic, saying that it is not his place to understand the illogic of God. The excuse itself is circular as well. This is why I believe that Kingschosen is nearing atheism, because if he is not then he is no better than Hovind.
I guess I'm no better than Hovind then.

Ask Erxy, Stark, or Lucradis... my time served here has weirdly strengthen my Christianity.

I've moved a couple of decimal points closer to a 1 on the Dawkin's Scale. Now, I'll never be a 1 (I don't think a 1 or 7 are possible), but I can move closer.

I do believe I will always remain an agnostic theist, though.


What? No "Ask Chas?" Weeping

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26-11-2012, 11:11 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 11:10 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:41 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Nothing to be /sadface'd about concerning my refusal of further discussion. What should be grieved for is your lack of reason regarding a very basic theological concept.
Which is?
God's existence, and the massive amounts of assumptions one requires when making the positive claim.

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26-11-2012, 11:12 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:40 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, it makes perfect sense. I get that.

But... for whatever reason... it just doesn't happen that way. God gives us perception, and implants joy on us. See, we can deny the plan God has... if we talk to someone about God it's because God planned it. If we have joy, it's because God planned it. If I perceive anything as a choice, it's because God planned for me to interpret that situation that way.

I know, though, that it's all predestined, and that gives me liberation. I know I could never do anything better than God does it, so all the events in my life have been planned by God to create my perception of this life.
This all sounds so egocentric. There's this God who obviously wasted a whole lot of time planning out this world, and anything that anyone ever said or thought or did? Then after planning it, he makes it all happen? For what, a bunch of somewhat advanced animals on a little speck of startdust? Seems like an inordinate amount of effort on God's part. Are we really that important? And if he plans everything, what is then the point of making it all happen? And how can anyone be held responsible for their actions, if God plans it anyway? Why would you punish those who did what you made them do in the first place? Makes him sound like a very grandiose and crazy puppeteer with way too much time on his hands...
Yeah, we put way too much emphasis on we as people. The role that we play in God's ultimate plan is unknown... we could be major players or a minor blip. But, there is way more out there than just us in regards to God's plan.

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26-11-2012, 11:13 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-11-2012 10:40 AM)tikidoc Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 10:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, it makes perfect sense. I get that.

But... for whatever reason... it just doesn't happen that way. God gives us perception, and implants joy on us. See, we can deny the plan God has... if we talk to someone about God it's because God planned it. If we have joy, it's because God planned it. If I perceive anything as a choice, it's because God planned for me to interpret that situation that way.

I know, though, that it's all predestined, and that gives me liberation. I know I could never do anything better than God does it, so all the events in my life have been planned by God to create my perception of this life.
This all sounds so egocentric. There's this God who obviously wasted a whole lot of time planning out this world, and anything that anyone ever said or thought or did? Then after planning it, he makes it all happen? For what, a bunch of somewhat advanced animals on a little speck of startdust? Seems like an inordinate amount of effort on God's part. Are we really that important? And if he plans everything, what is then the point of making it all happen? And how can anyone be held responsible for their actions, if God plans it anyway? Why would you punish those who did what you made them do in the first place? Makes him sound like a very grandiose and crazy puppeteer with way too much time on his hands...


It makes sense to KC. It doesn't make sense to anyone else here. Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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