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11-12-2012, 10:50 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 10:43 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  The "nest of ants" thing is disturbing. Are you stating that we are like that "nest of ants"? The things about that nest is, . . . I don't have any care for them. They are all the same, and can be a nuisance. And I would never "die to save them". IF we are nothing more than "ants" to this god, what are even YOU to him? A pet, for a while, . . . then thrown out when it is no longer fun for 'him'? I think "nest of ants" is a poor analogy.

As for who is chosen, are you saying that anyone who "accepts god" is also "chosen"? I accepted god [in absolute sincerity] for most of my life, only realizing none of it was true about 2-3 years ago. I was absolutely certain of it, at that time. Was I "one of the elect"? You'd probably say 'no', considering my current state. However, . . . if I had died at that time, . . . . . would I have still gone to hell because I actually WASN'T "one of the chosen"? Could you be one "created for damnation" even though you firmly believe?
Well, I didn't mean it in its most literal sense. I meant it in terms of relativity of what is seen as monstrous.

Your second point: No True Scotsman

And yes, you would have gone to hell still because you weren't elected*

*I'm not saying you're not elected, I'm just answering your question in absolute terms.

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11-12-2012, 11:23 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So, could you be "one of the damned", even though you are [now] equally sure of your belief/acceptance?

Having said all this, I don't see any reason to believe in a literal hell. I'm sure it will be a point of "agree to disagree", so it is just making conversation. I was in a Calvinistic church when I was "a christian".
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11-12-2012, 11:24 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 11:29 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 10:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 10:40 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Oh please, you believe everybody is just a pawn of the Great Invisible Friend.

Dodgy
Like I've said before... everyone has to be if He is sovereign.

That is based on the unsupported assumption that it is both identifiable as a (likely human) male, and or sovereign.l


(11-12-2012 10:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  *I'm not saying you're not elected, I'm just answering your question in absolute terms.
In spite of the fact that nothing humans understand can be absolute, aside from mathematics that is, and we still don't even understand that some times!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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11-12-2012, 11:28 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 11:23 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  So, could you be "one of the damned", even though you are [now] equally sure of your belief/acceptance?

Having said all this, I don't see any reason to believe in a literal hell. I'm sure it will be a point of "agree to disagree", so it is just making conversation. I was in a Calvinistic church when I was "a christian".
Again, that's a possibility. Without omniscience, I can't be absolute.

A literal is clearly defined in scripture, though.

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11-12-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 11:24 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 10:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Like I've said before... everyone has to be if He is sovereign.

That is based on the unsupported assumption that it is both identifiable as a (likely human) male, and or sovereign.l
According to my authority (Bible), it describes Him a sovereign.

He is only a "he" or communication purposes and because during the time of the Bible, males had certain connotations ascribed to them - this is God using the language of the day to communicate.

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11-12-2012, 11:40 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 11:49 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 11:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 11:23 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  So, could you be "one of the damned", even though you are [now] equally sure of your belief/acceptance?

Having said all this, I don't see any reason to believe in a literal hell. I'm sure it will be a point of "agree to disagree", so it is just making conversation. I was in a Calvinistic church when I was "a christian".
Again, that's a possibility. Without omniscience, I can't be absolute.

A literal is clearly defined in scripture, though.


KC, isn't a woman being made of a man's rib, which was made of dirt and gods halitosis also depicted literally?

And a talking donkey and snake.

And two different simultaneous, conflicting creation orders.

And a 900 year old man.

A world (or at least region) destroying flood.

A firmament above the sky.

Angel-Human hybrids.

And lets not forget the amount of genocides that I care not to remember.

And lets not even forget about Jesus rocketing off into space in some odd, vague direction. (Where is Jesus going anyway? Is he trying to reach to edge of the universe? Or will he stop off at a black hole on the way? Perhaps he is orbiting the galactic core, waiting to return? Maybe he had to leave the atmosphere to fade into a different dimension because his work was done?)


(11-12-2012 11:30 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 11:24 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  That is based on the unsupported assumption that it is both identifiable as a (likely human) male, and or sovereign.l
According to my authority (Bible), it describes Him a sovereign.

He is only a "he" or communication purposes and because during the time of the Bible, males had certain connotations ascribed to them - this is God using the language of the day to communicate.

No sir, I don't think that'll cut it, it just don't wash.

No offence but; I've got a thermus with the name "Paul" inscribe into it, using your authority based logic, it is now my authority, therefore a man named Paul, made of metal, is the creator of all metallic elements, and since humans have iron in their blood, Paul the Metalman created humans and most other earthly life forms. Therefore Paul the Metal-man, is god.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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11-12-2012, 11:45 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 11:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 11:23 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  So, could you be "one of the damned", even though you are [now] equally sure of your belief/acceptance?

Having said all this, I don't see any reason to believe in a literal hell. I'm sure it will be a point of "agree to disagree", so it is just making conversation. I was in a Calvinistic church when I was "a christian".

Again, that's a possibility. Without omniscience, I can't be absolute.

A literal is clearly defined in scripture, though.


So, because there IS a possibility, what is the motivation? If you actually weren't "a chosen", but lived all your life "knowing you were", only to be sadly surprised after death, . . . what do you think would be your response at that time? This is a legitimate question. I have wondered about this.

What is "the literal that is clearly defined"?

I guess the second part of the first question would have to follow, . . . Could I be "a chosen", though I see no evidence of a god, . . . yet that have no bearing on this god's reality of whom has been chosen?

Last question. If 95% of the world's people [who have ever existed] were only created for destruction [I believe for the sole purpose of letting the chosen know how lucky they are], wouldn't that have to be an evil plan, IF the "destruction" was actually an eternity of pain and suffering out of their own ability to control?
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11-12-2012, 11:47 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 11:40 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  KC, isn't a woman being made of a man's rib, which was made of dirt and gods halitosis also depicted literally?

Part of ANE mythos.

Quote:And a talking donkey and snake.

Snake - see above
Donkey - yes

Quote:And two different simultaneous, conflicting creation orders.

And a 900 year old man.

A world (or at least region) destroying flood.

A firmament above the sky.

All these are ANE mythos stories adapted and melded with history to tell a story about God.

Quote:Angel-Human hybrids.

Yep.

Quote:And lets not forget the amount of genocides that I care not to remember.

This was because of the preservation of the Messianic line.

Quote:And lets not even forget about Jesus rocketing off into space in some odd, vague direction. (Where is Jesus going anyway? Is he trying to reach to edge of the universe? Or will he stop off at a black hole on the way? Perhaps he is orbiting the the galactic core, waiting to return? Maybe he had to leave the atmosphere to fade into a different dimension because his work was done?))

There is no solid explanation why Jesus went into the air except for symbolic purposes (the people of that time believed that heaven was above).

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11-12-2012, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 12:05 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2012 11:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  This was because of the preservation of the Messianic line.
I can't fathom how you can believe something this utterly irrational. God had to order his adherents to slaughter innocent men and children and take the virgins for themselves in order to preserve the Messianic line? Really?
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11-12-2012, 12:11 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
See that is the puzzling part.

You seem to realise that the bibal (yes, I mean bib-al), was built off older creation myths from the region, and yet your personalised interpretation is correct; not the base works of myth from which it originated, A la Canaan and Sumerian and Babylonian works; and the myths that came out from the bible are wrong too; and the thousands of interpretations that are not yours.
Not even mentioning unrelated creation myths like those of China, Japan, Mongolia or the Dreamtime of of Australian Aboriginals or what ever other example you do so pick.

Every single one of them are wrong, and yet yours is not? How very curious. Very curious indeed; it seems to be a very common trend, almost as if believers go into confirmation bias and cognitive shut-down sub-consciously so that their mind can retain their beliefs.

Ever noticed how every religion has been claimed as the truth by it's partakers?
And that every single one contradicts all the others? It is practically assured that all of them are wrong, at least too some degree. And your personalized beliefs are not exempt.

You do see how in all probability, your beliefs are wrong also?


(Also, why would god torture a donkey is such a way? The change in it's vocal cords and larynx must of been excruciating for the poor beast! Sure It could have come up with a better, less donkey torturing way to communicate!)

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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