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15-12-2011, 09:32 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-12-2011 09:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-12-2011 09:14 AM)The_observer Wrote:  I have a new question for the theist...

"Why is it that you think your form of religion (Christianity: Calvinism) is the right form of religion"

In other words: Why Is it that you're a Calvinist and not a Buddhist? What if your wrong?

From this thread.

[i]Evidence for me being elect:

In short: Personal experience?

And He personally told you that Calvinism is the only right choice?

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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15-12-2011, 09:40 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Yes. I didn't choose my conversation, and my studies of the scripture have shown me why I didn't choose.

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15-12-2011, 10:30 AM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2011 10:33 AM by Erxomai.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
Evidence for me not being elect:

Growing up, I was always proud of my Christianity and whenever my parents talked about Jesus I soaked up every word. I thought church was fun, and I found the stories stirred my imagination and made me want to know more.

I finally accepted Jesus as my own savior at the age of 6, and in college it became my official belief, as I began to rip Christianity apart with the use of logic and rationality, but couldn't shake my own belief. I wouldn't combat Christians on the Internet via forums because these things did not exist in the 80's. But I was good at being skeptical about other things outside my Christianity so I knew I was rather intelligent.

Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to the realization that there really is no higher power; even though I thought I knew whom it was before. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. Yet there was nothing. No response, no change. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I believed in a God that I could talk to. (Actually it took about 8 years for this to happen).

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how for so many years I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I couldn't do it any longer. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose to walk away from it because I knew I was one of the elect and I knew that NOTHING could separate me from the love of God.

Throughout my life, the higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I had absolutely no more desire to do it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to that I thought was the Christian God was no longer there. However, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t make this choice before. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about evolution and delusion and superstition and the way the brain works. And then, it made sense. I realized that then the reason I didn’t have a choice before was because I was delusional and stuck in false tradition and I realized finally that I did have a choice and could drop the pretenses of believing in a God who wasn't there.

I knew that I was an atheist because I learned that those who are atheists don't hear the will of God because the will of God doesn't exist. I was fooling myself for all those years when I thought that God had chosen me and Jesus would have died only for me if I had been the only elect.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice but my own.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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15-12-2011, 10:45 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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15-12-2011, 10:49 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-12-2011 10:45 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

Alas, I feel that this is where we reach an impasse with our good KC. He will never convince us that his personal experience is real, and we will never convince him that it is not.

It remains to be seen if our good influence will help the brainwashing disappear over time. Big Grin

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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15-12-2011, 10:50 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-12-2011 10:45 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

Delusion is convincing, otherwise it's called a thought.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-12-2011, 12:46 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-12-2011 10:45 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

Here is a book that I think would answer your question very well...
I suggest you read this if you havn't already..

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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15-12-2011, 12:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
@Drew
I have read it. I can tolerate Dawkins, but I find him too pretentious; and he argues in fallacies. But, I read it awhile ago, I might give it a go again.

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15-12-2011, 12:56 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Nah. KC is fruit of the poisoned tree that is Christianity, but he has overcome such original sin by the validity of his compassion and reason. Is there some areas where his logic is questionable? As the soulless minion of Gwyneth Paltrow, it is not for my logic to throw stones. Big Grin

Preach, however, gots the semi-automatic howitzer fired up. Wink

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15-12-2011, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2011 06:37 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-12-2011 09:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Evidence for me being elect: ... I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

Goddam dude, back in the day Girly dosed some wicked ass blotter and not only heard the will of God but walked and talked with the cantankerous old cuss Hisself. ... More than once. ... Think this atheist might be more elect than you Christian.

#sigh
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