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05-04-2013, 12:40 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2013 12:26 AM)f stop Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 03:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  3) The Bible is a valid authority for my beliefs.
Kind of makes the whole exercise pointless, does it not?

Just like your post.

Truth be told, if you don't understand why your post was silly and pointless, then there really isn't much of a reason to respond.

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05-04-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2013 12:26 AM)f stop Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 03:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  3) The Bible is a valid authority for my beliefs.
Kind of makes the whole exercise pointless, does it not?
I don't think so, since the aim of this thread is not to debate, but to explore KC's beliefs.

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05-04-2013, 01:22 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So KC, I'm sure you've probably covered this before in another thread, but I have to ask: If god planned everything....and god loves everyone.....why is it that billions are created but only a few are "selected" to go to heaven? But he still loves everybody the same? (even african aids kids starving to death?) It may just be logic to me that obviously some creations are created "loved" more than others (thus the whole hell/heaven thing).

I kind of get your theology, but do you still maintain god as "perfect"? Or just god?

I can deal with just god, but he's got a bit to deal with if claiming perfection.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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05-04-2013, 07:52 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2013 01:22 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  So KC, I'm sure you've probably covered this before in another thread, but I have to ask: If god planned everything....and god loves everyone.....why is it that billions are created but only a few are "selected" to go to heaven? But he still loves everybody the same? (even african aids kids starving to death?) It may just be logic to me that obviously some creations are created "loved" more than others (thus the whole hell/heaven thing).

I kind of get your theology, but do you still maintain god as "perfect"? Or just god?

I can deal with just god, but he's got a bit to deal with if claiming perfection.

Damnation has to exist because of sin.

If it didn't, then Christ would be pointless.

It's a cause and an effect.

And yes, I do maintain the stance that God is "perfect".

He created His plan... and His plan has results... unfortunate results.

But, His plan is order... it's perfect in that sense. Not a moral perfect, as God cannot be held to the same moral standard as us.

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05-04-2013, 07:52 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-04-2013 02:52 PM)kim Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 02:30 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Question...You're still doing this?

He was supposed to make a 2.0 thread with a summation containing links to subjects addressed here, and leave it open for further questioning.

However, it's Spring and I suspect things have become ... distracting. Drinking Beverage

I started... but it was just too much of a hassle on the tablet.

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05-04-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2013 07:52 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 01:22 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  So KC, I'm sure you've probably covered this before in another thread, but I have to ask: If god planned everything....and god loves everyone.....why is it that billions are created but only a few are "selected" to go to heaven? But he still loves everybody the same? (even african aids kids starving to death?) It may just be logic to me that obviously some creations are created "loved" more than others (thus the whole hell/heaven thing).

I kind of get your theology, but do you still maintain god as "perfect"? Or just god?

I can deal with just god, but he's got a bit to deal with if claiming perfection.

Damnation has to exist because of sin.

If it didn't, then Christ would be pointless.

It's a cause and an effect.

And yes, I do maintain the stance that God is "perfect".

He created His plan... and His plan has results... unfortunate results.

But, His plan is order... it's perfect in that sense. Not a moral perfect, as God cannot be held to the same moral standard as us.

Kingsy, I am sure that you remember what I said about anything "Having" to exist with an omnipotent Deity...

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05-04-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2013 12:31 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 07:52 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Damnation has to exist because of sin.

If it didn't, then Christ would be pointless.

It's a cause and an effect.

And yes, I do maintain the stance that God is "perfect".

He created His plan... and His plan has results... unfortunate results.

But, His plan is order... it's perfect in that sense. Not a moral perfect, as God cannot be held to the same moral standard as us.

Kingsy, I am sure that you remember what I said about anything "Having" to exist with an omnipotent Deity...

Yes.

But, since it's paradoxical, we have to deduce what God "has" to do from His characteristics displayed in the Bible.

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05-04-2013, 02:16 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Belemnites are an extinct group of cephalopods. Their fossils are very common in the US and in Europe (they look little cigars or bullets and weather out of the rocks that commonly house them very easily). An early explanation for these little fossils was that they were the petrified lightening bolts of Zeus. As was pointed out by a friend of mine, this explanation existed, but was it actually believed to be true? Meaning that while people may have called it a petrified lightening bolt, did they actually believe that, or was that the only explanation, so that was just what they were called? In the same way that parents know Santa is not real, but still tell the stories as if they are.

This is all building towards a larger question, obviously.

Did the authors and editors of the bible believe they were writing truth, or did they believe they were writing stories with "truth" in them that were the stories passed down in their culture?

Do you think that Saul of Taursus believed Jesus to have actually existed, or was it good enough for him to just be a figure who stories could be told about?

And (while moral lessons can be laid within fiction), can truth be veiled within untruth?

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05-04-2013, 06:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-04-2013 07:52 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 01:22 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  So KC, I'm sure you've probably covered this before in another thread, but I have to ask: If god planned everything....and god loves everyone.....why is it that billions are created but only a few are "selected" to go to heaven? But he still loves everybody the same? (even african aids kids starving to death?) It may just be logic to me that obviously some creations are created "loved" more than others (thus the whole hell/heaven thing).

I kind of get your theology, but do you still maintain god as "perfect"? Or just god?

I can deal with just god, but he's got a bit to deal with if claiming perfection.

Damnation has to exist because of sin.

If it didn't, then Christ would be pointless.

It's a cause and an effect.

And yes, I do maintain the stance that God is "perfect".

He created His plan... and His plan has results... unfortunate results.

But, His plan is order... it's perfect in that sense. Not a moral perfect, as God cannot be held to the same moral standard as us.

I honestly don't see we don't hold him to the same moral standards he holds us to. In the bible he exhibits the same emotions as we do, anger ,jealousy, remorse, love. If he has the same emotions as we do, and supposedly our morals come from him. Why wouldn't we hold him to the same standards? As for sin, along the same line of thinking, we have sin because we ate the fruit and knew what he knew, according to genesis. It seems hypocrisy is also something god and humans share.
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05-04-2013, 07:07 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Christianity is unique in this problem in that good deeds and evil deeds mean nothing for salvation. It is only through the Son that one can reach the Father. So my question is how can a moral God condem all of humanity to fire and brimstone without a chance to even hear the message, with the exception of a very small portion of the total population?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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