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11-04-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-04-2013 12:42 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  So, at some point in history there was the first person allowed into Heaven who arrived alone with no parents or grandparents to spend eternity with. Where's the eternal bliss?

I don't believe in an earthly recollection once we're in heaven. Any memories of earth will usher in pain. The Bible said that there will be no pain in heaven.

Quote:I was raised as a Christian and was always told that when you get to Heaven you'll get to see all of your relatives and loved ones again and be happy forever. But that doesn't make sense. So I arrive in Heaven and I see relatives and ask, "Hey. Where's Uncle Joe?"
"Oh, your Uncle Joe was a buddhist and is burning in Hell."
"Oh, shit. Damn you Uncle Joe. Now I'm going to be sad in Heaven because you're not here."

It's contradictory.

You're right it's contradictory... because it's not what the Bible teaches. That is a false teaching that is prevalent in churches.

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11-04-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-04-2013 01:11 PM)kim Wrote:  
Kingsy Wrote:1) I believe infants, babies, and children that die are chosen for salvation... same with the mentally handicapped. I based this belief solely on God's grace and because the Bible said that you will be judged based on your deeds. Since these people have no understanding of deeds or morality aka what is a sin, I believe that there is nothing for them to be judged on; therefore, they are chosen for salvation.

2) Humans that existed before God imparted His image upon us simply lived and died. Much like any other animal. They had no knowledge of good and evil because the image of God let us understand this. They simply died and went into nonexistence.

3) I don't know the exact time when God imparted His image on humanity. I do believe it was before written history.

Seems all lovely pie in the sky, as one is bound to get during the analysis of love. But what if love is blind and one doesn't see what might really be important to see? What if one misses the point or many points because love or the notion of love, is so enthralling?
***

I find #2 & 3 quite a nice notion; that humans who existed before God imparted his image upon humanity, possibly before written history. By image I assume you mean a kind of thought imagery or the notion of this god concept, because uh... well...
You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my laws.

Would not engraving words (thought imagery) into a book and holding that book as sacred... be somewhat contrary to that particular bit? Not to mention the rest of the worshiped words written in that worshiped book, or worshiped words written about anything or anyone worshiped in that book.

***
It seems the humans who existed before this particular God may have known what they were doing. Essentially, until one is indoctrinated, we are those humans.

I am. I am prior to god. No god has "imparted his image" upon me, I simply live and die. Much like any other animal. I have a relative knowledge of good and evil but, I guarantee no image of any god let me understand this. I will simply die and go into nonexistence.

Humans could accomplish much if they weren't obliged to waste precious, fleeting moments of life by stressing about that heaven and hell bullshit. Drinking Beverage

That's all fair. But, I just want to reiterate that it's my understanding and belief. It's my reconciliation for difficult things written in the Bible.

Also lol@Kingsy

<3 Kim

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11-04-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-04-2013 11:49 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 11:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "I think it really depends on the book. Since the Bible is so eclectic, there are some books that are meant to be understood as truth and some as stories with truth."

This kind of answer baffles and confuses me. Confused What I mean to say is that how can one discern truth from non-truth and that which is literally true from that which is only metaphorically true? And if everyone reads a different "truth" in any given passage, both cannot be right, but both use the same justification for calling it truth.

If this is truly god's system for revealing himself, it is atrocious.

"Nothing in Paul's writings suggest that he didn't believe Jesus existed. So yes, I believe he believed in Jesus' existence."

I haven't read much of any of Paul's writings, but suffice it say, many a great author has written about a literary character of their creation as if they were real. Tolkein constructed entire family trees.

"Absolutely. Parables are an example of this."

I don't understand how a fiction can be true. I fully comprehend how an author might infuse their morals into it though. But there exists no truth in the story of "The Little Engine That Could" despite teaching kids in a metaphorical way to never give up. That may be a moral lesson from the author, but that neither makes it moral, just, or true.

Fiction isn't ever literally true. The lessons that are taught are true.

I think the confusion lies with people thinking that truth = 100% literal accuracy

I don't understand how truth would be anything other than factually correct to such a degree that it would be deemed highly unlikely to be anything other than 100% correct.

We must be using different variations of "truth." As I cannot see an inaccurate story or myth as being truth. It could have some facts in it, like a person that did indeed exist, but that no more makes Abraham Lincoln a vampire hunter than me the queen of England.

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11-04-2013, 11:56 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-04-2013 01:39 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  23 hundred posts are just a few too many for me to scroll through, so I apologize if this has been asked before. What is a theist's view on the abortion of "artificial"/unnatural life? I'm asking any pro-lifers, specifically.
A woman donates her egg, a man donates his sperm; neither of them ever meet. The 2 are put together by scientists in a lab, and in your hand, theist, is a test tube with the beginnings of a human life in it that never had anything to do with a man & woman having marital sex. Do you hold it reverently, or do you cast it to the floor to shatter it?
Serious question. I'm curious!

It's still a human. A human created by a sperm and egg is still a natural life... the incubation process doesn't matter.

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11-04-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-04-2013 11:49 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 11:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "I think it really depends on the book. Since the Bible is so eclectic, there are some books that are meant to be understood as truth and some as stories with truth."

This kind of answer baffles and confuses me. Confused What I mean to say is that how can one discern truth from non-truth and that which is literally true from that which is only metaphorically true? And if everyone reads a different "truth" in any given passage, both cannot be right, but both use the same justification for calling it truth.

If this is truly god's system for revealing himself, it is atrocious.

"Nothing in Paul's writings suggest that he didn't believe Jesus existed. So yes, I believe he believed in Jesus' existence."

I haven't read much of any of Paul's writings, but suffice it say, many a great author has written about a literary character of their creation as if they were real. Tolkein constructed entire family trees.

"Absolutely. Parables are an example of this."

I don't understand how a fiction can be true. I fully comprehend how an author might infuse their morals into it though. But there exists no truth in the story of "The Little Engine That Could" despite teaching kids in a metaphorical way to never give up. That may be a moral lesson from the author, but that neither makes it moral, just, or true.

Fiction isn't ever literally true. The lessons that are taught are true.

I think the confusion lies with people thinking that truth = 100% literal accuracy

It really seems like cherry-picking at this point. Anyway I know you've probably answered this somewhere in this monster of a thread but your a calvinist and believe in that salvation is preordained correct? If it doesn't matter one way or another what you do either your names on the list or it isn't then why spend your brief time on this planet doing what you believe you'll be doing for all eternity? Would this belief (rather than the belief that this is the only time you get) allow you to act with no morals since you already have your get out of jail free card?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-04-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-04-2013 02:17 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 11:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ... I based this belief solely on God's grace and because the Bible said that you will be judged based on your deeds. ...

This statement seems to conflict with:

(26-03-2013 01:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If you aren't elect, you can't choose God. You can only have faith in God if God gives you that faith.

By these two standards for acceptance into the pearly gates:

1) One can be a total self-serving asshole, but since they're "elect" and have God-given faith they are allowed into Heaven.

2) An atheist who is kind, altruistic, charitable, and benevolent is also invited in based upon their exceptional deeds.

???????

Everyone sins.

The price for sin is death and hell.

This is the cause.

God saves some of us by choosing us.

If you're not chosen, your sins aren't forgiven; therefore, you are judged on your deeds.

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11-04-2013, 12:00 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-04-2013 11:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And still no respsonse to GirlyMan, goddam dude, don't be as useless and fecklesss as Ego®.

Bah ... bitch.Tongue

Oops, sorry... missed it.

But, yeah... I've said over and over that the plan existence from infinity just like God. God set it up that way... with sin... that's why it had to exist.

And yes... yes, you have... many times Big Grin

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11-04-2013, 01:44 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-04-2013 11:58 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Everyone sins.
How do you know that? Consider

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11-04-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-04-2013 01:44 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-04-2013 11:58 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Everyone sins.
How do you know that? Consider

He's a theist.

Theists make shit up.

The shit theists make up, they call knowledge.

Q.E.D.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-04-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-04-2013 01:44 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-04-2013 11:58 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Everyone sins.
How do you know that? Consider

I should have said, "according to the Christian doctrine".

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