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16-12-2011, 04:11 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-12-2011 10:45 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

Because, I resented the idea of a god. I thought it was stupid and illogical. It didn't even make sense. Yet... that changed.

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16-12-2011, 04:33 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-12-2011 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yet... that changed.

How?

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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16-12-2011, 07:19 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-12-2011 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-12-2011 10:45 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

Because, I resented the idea of a god. I thought it was stupid and illogical. It didn't even make sense. Yet... that changed.

So what? That answers why you believe, but it doesn't actually answer the first question. How do you know? How do you know that it was the Christian god who "spoke" to you, and not something completely within your head, yet still outside of your control/desire? If you don't know, then just say so. "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer in these circles Tongue

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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16-12-2011, 09:40 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2011 10:06 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-12-2011 07:19 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-12-2011 10:45 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

Because, I resented the idea of a god. I thought it was stupid and illogical. It didn't even make sense. Yet... that changed.

So what? That answers why you believe, but it doesn't actually answer the first question. How do you know? How do you know that it was the Christian god who "spoke" to you, and not something completely within your head, yet still outside of your control/desire? If you don't know, then just say so. "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer in these circles Tongue

I know it's a long thread and such, and I really DON'T want to sound like a d-bag, but I've answered this question in great detail already. It's in the part about my conversion.

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16-12-2011, 11:37 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-12-2011 04:33 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yet... that changed.

How?

I believed in God by no choice of my own. I was compelled to by something that I couldn't control.

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17-12-2011, 04:29 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Yes, I believe I saw you giving the same explanation before. I suppose this is as far as you will go with the answers. However, don't turn it into an "I know something I won't tell" song. It doesn't add anything useful to a conversation.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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17-12-2011, 08:58 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 04:29 AM)Malleus Wrote:  Yes, I believe I saw you giving the same explanation before. I suppose this is as far as you will go with the answers. However, don't turn it into an "I know something I won't tell" song. It doesn't add anything useful to a conversation.

Yeah, sorry about that. I'll go further. Ask away.

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17-12-2011, 01:46 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I don't necessarily need to know. I suppose you already know my probable reaction whatever your story may be and still you feel you have good reasons to hold your position so I have to question the usefulness of you telling me a story I heard before, I react in a predictable manner, and then we fight or we agree to disagree. I merely reacted to the repeated allusion you made about a mysterious revelation. Mainly I was wondering how that could ever help in a conversation.

That being said, if you still wish to share it, by all means, do so.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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17-12-2011, 04:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-12-2011 11:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 04:33 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yet... that changed.

How?

I believed in God by no choice of my own. I was compelled to by something that I couldn't control.

Congratulations, you've completed the first step of your 12-step program. 1 down, only 11 to go!

1. We admitted we were powerless over our delusion — that our minds had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that nothing could restore us to sanity while we remained delusional.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to our rational self.
4. Made a searching and fearless rational inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to Kant, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our fallacies.
6. We're entirely ready to have logic remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly enrolled in an Introduction to Logic course to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all logical fallacies we had perpetrated, and became willing to make amends by never committing them again.
9. Made direct amends to the rational people we've offended wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were fallacious promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through reason and consideration to improve our conscious contact with rationality, striving only for knowledge of logic for us and for the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a rational awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to delusional theists, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-12-2011, 06:52 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 04:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 11:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I believed in God by no choice of my own. I was compelled to by something that I couldn't control.

Congratulations, you've completed the first step of your 12-step program. 1 down, only 11 to go!

1. We admitted we were powerless over our delusion — that our minds had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that nothing could restore us to sanity while we remained delusional.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to our rational self.
4. Made a searching and fearless rational inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to Kant, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our fallacies.
6. We're entirely ready to have logic remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly enrolled in an Introduction to Logic course to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all logical fallacies we had perpetrated, and became willing to make amends by never committing them again.
9. Made direct amends to the rational people we've offended wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were fallacious promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through reason and consideration to improve our conscious contact with rationality, striving only for knowledge of logic for us and for the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a rational awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to delusional theists, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

LOL... Damn GM... I havn't had a good laugh in awhile.. thanks for making the 12 steps clear for us. Perfect.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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