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24-12-2013, 09:39 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:30 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Well here's one: do you believe your god to be prejudiced?

Depends on how you define His choice. I don't think He bases choices of skin color, nationality, sex, or sexual orientation, but I do think He has His favorites... which is WHAT election is.

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24-12-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yeah, no worries man.

But, when you are engaging in theists, make sure to understand the core beliefs of the denomination which they claim.

If you click my name, I've listed my core beliefs in my profile. That free will question is completely meaningless to any Calvinistic denomination of Christianity. It's pretty exclusive, though. Not many of religions or Christian denominations deny free will.

I'll see if I can come up with some interesting question that does pertain Calvinism. It could take a while, though, as I know little of it.

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24-12-2013, 09:41 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 09:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  It's pretty exclusive, though. Not many of religions or Christian denominations deny free will.

No, only the really fucking retarded ones. Dodgy

I got you a Christmas present.

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24-12-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:39 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 09:30 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Well here's one: do you believe your god to be prejudiced?

Depends on how you define His choice. I don't think He bases choices of skin color, nationality, sex, or sexual orientation, but I do think He has His favorites... which is WHAT election is.

Take sex, skin color, nationality and sexual orientation out of the mix - that's a very silly comparison, KC. That out of the way, you have the elect and the non-elect. His favorites and his non-favorites. Do you believe your god to be prejudiced?

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24-12-2013, 09:46 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 09:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, only the really fucking retarded ones. Dodgy

I got you a Christmas present.

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Don't need it. Send it to Girly.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-12-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 09:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I got you a Christmas present.

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Don't need it. Send it to Girly.

I need it. I'll take it.

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24-12-2013, 09:53 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:45 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 09:39 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Depends on how you define His choice. I don't think He bases choices of skin color, nationality, sex, or sexual orientation, but I do think He has His favorites... which is WHAT election is.

Take sex, skin color, nationality and sexual orientation out of the mix - that's a very silly comparison, KC. That out of the way, you have the elect and the non-elect. His favorites and his non-favorites. Do you believe your god to be prejudiced?

I thought so to... but I didn't know what you meant as "prejudice".

I guess the simple answer is no... no He's not. He didn't choose anyone based on anything that person did or could do. He chose them from the beginning, and the person had no bearing on it whatsoever.

In order for there to be prejudice, there has to be a certain factor that draws/entices a decision.

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24-12-2013, 10:34 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(23-12-2013 01:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 01:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hmmm. All right, but in order to answer that question, we're going to have to go under the assumption that I'm imagining my world without God and without the predestination that I believe.

I mean, without those qualifiers the question is moot because I wouldn't believe that God predestined anything, so my life wouldn't be any different.

If under the paradoxical scenario that God didn't exist but predestined my life but because He didn't exist then my predestined life didn't go as planned, then it would be this:

Under that scenario, I do believe I would be a complete mess of a person. Probably dead from an OD or something. I definitely would be married and I definitely wouldn't have kids. I would have still been in my parent's house barely working or having any type of ambition.

That is, of course, possible - maybe even likely. But it is not a certainty.

There are other paths out of self-destruction.

As well as other paths of salvation. Who is to say whether Christianity was necessary to your preservation? If your epiphany can be said to have been your own action, perhaps any belief could have sufficed? Even a belief in your own abilities?

(24-12-2013 09:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 09:45 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Take sex, skin color, nationality and sexual orientation out of the mix - that's a very silly comparison, KC. That out of the way, you have the elect and the non-elect. His favorites and his non-favorites. Do you believe your god to be prejudiced?

I thought so to... but I didn't know what you meant as "prejudice".

I guess the simple answer is no... no He's not. He didn't choose anyone based on anything that person did or could do. He chose them from the beginning, and the person had no bearing on it whatsoever.

In order for there to be prejudice, there has to be a certain factor that draws/entices a decision.

So then, what's the rest of His creation for? Seems awfully wasteful and inefficient on the surface. Why make non-elect in the first place? And, if you have an opinion on that, where did it come from?

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24-12-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 09:45 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Take sex, skin color, nationality and sexual orientation out of the mix - that's a very silly comparison, KC. That out of the way, you have the elect and the non-elect. His favorites and his non-favorites. Do you believe your god to be prejudiced?

I thought so to... but I didn't know what you meant as "prejudice".

I guess the simple answer is no... no He's not. He didn't choose anyone based on anything that person did or could do. He chose them from the beginning, and the person had no bearing on it whatsoever.

In order for there to be prejudice, there has to be a certain factor that draws/entices a decision.

In that case, Favourites, as you said earlier should not actually be.

So what your saying is that the humans who are chosen, add little words like favourites and therefore are applying the quality of prejudice to the calvanist god that they actually don't consider to be prejudiced.

Oxford:
Prejudice:
noun
[mass noun]
1. preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience

So there is the problem. What you feel to be the definition of prejudice that keeps distance from the calvanist god is actually the reverse - bringing the calvanist god closer to the definition of prejudice than you think.

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24-12-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(24-12-2013 09:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 04:10 PM)bemore Wrote:  I am sure there are people under those circumstances right now who hold just as much belief in god. What about those people?

I'm not sure what you're asking, Chris. What about them? God controls all... not just the lives of His elect.

I just don't get how you can say that you picture a life without god to look very very bleak, yet there are people who live bleak life's like the one you described that also believe in god.

I just cant put the "why them and not me" down to faith and a predestined plan that I will never ever see.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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