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17-12-2011, 06:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 04:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 11:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 04:33 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yet... that changed.

How?

I believed in God by no choice of my own. I was compelled to by something that I couldn't control.

Congratulations, you've completed the first step of your 12-step program. 1 down, only 11 to go!

1. We admitted we were powerless over our delusion — that our minds had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that nothing could restore us to sanity while we remained delusional.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to our rational self.
4. Made a searching and fearless rational inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to Kant, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our fallacies.
6. We're entirely ready to have logic remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly enrolled in an Introduction to Logic course to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all logical fallacies we had perpetrated, and became willing to make amends by never committing them again.
9. Made direct amends to the rational people we've offended wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were fallacious promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through reason and consideration to improve our conscious contact with rationality, striving only for knowledge of logic for us and for the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a rational awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to delusional theists, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Hmmm, I would say that I haven't completed the first step yet. I would have to admit that my belief in God is a delusion, which I don't believe.

lol... am I y'all's new project or something?

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17-12-2011, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2011 07:30 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 06:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hmmm, I would say that I haven't completed the first step yet. I would have to admit that my belief in God is a delusion, which I don't believe.

Yeah, your self is damned to be incapable of realizing its full potential and extent and extant as long as you continue to hold onto the delusion that your self outlives you by virtue of divine intervention.

(17-12-2011 06:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  lol... am I y'all's new project or something?

Well, it's just me so far, brother. Wink

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-12-2011, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2011 07:19 PM by ddrew.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 06:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 04:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 11:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I believed in God by no choice of my own. I was compelled to by something that I couldn't control.

Congratulations, you've completed the first step of your 12-step program. 1 down, only 11 to go!

1. We admitted we were powerless over our delusion — that our minds had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that nothing could restore us to sanity while we remained delusional.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to our rational self.
4. Made a searching and fearless rational inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to Kant, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our fallacies.
6. We're entirely ready to have logic remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly enrolled in an Introduction to Logic course to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all logical fallacies we had perpetrated, and became willing to make amends by never committing them again.
9. Made direct amends to the rational people we've offended wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were fallacious promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through reason and consideration to improve our conscious contact with rationality, striving only for knowledge of logic for us and for the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a rational awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to delusional theists, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Hmmm, I would say that I haven't completed the first step yet. I would have to admit that my belief in God is a delusion, which I don't believe.

lol... am I y'all's new project or something?

Actually I think you have completed the first step .. let's break it down...

We admitted we were powerless - that I couldn't control.
over our delusion - I was compelled by something
that our minds had become unmanageable. - I believed in God by no choice of my own

your in denial... true sign of your delusion...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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17-12-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 07:10 PM)ddrew Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 06:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 04:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 11:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I believed in God by no choice of my own. I was compelled to by something that I couldn't control.

Congratulations, you've completed the first step of your 12-step program. 1 down, only 11 to go!

1. We admitted we were powerless over our delusion — that our minds had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that nothing could restore us to sanity while we remained delusional.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to our rational self.
4. Made a searching and fearless rational inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to Kant, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our fallacies.
6. We're entirely ready to have logic remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly enrolled in an Introduction to Logic course to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all logical fallacies we had perpetrated, and became willing to make amends by never committing them again.
9. Made direct amends to the rational people we've offended wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were fallacious promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through reason and consideration to improve our conscious contact with rationality, striving only for knowledge of logic for us and for the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a rational awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to delusional theists, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Hmmm, I would say that I haven't completed the first step yet. I would have to admit that my belief in God is a delusion, which I don't believe.

lol... am I y'all's new project or something?

Actually I think you have coompleted the first step .. let's break it down...

We admitted we were powerless - that I couldn't control.
over our delusion - I was compelled by something
that our minds had become unmanageable. - I believed in God by no choice of my own

your in denial... true sign of your delusion...

But for all this to be true, I would have to admit God is a delusion.

@GM
See! Drew is trying as well.

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17-12-2011, 07:20 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2011 07:27 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 07:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  @GM
See! Drew is trying as well.

Yeah, still don't qualify as a project. It's just me and Drew sitting at the bar getting drunk and fucking with a Christian just for the hell of it. ... Nothing to worry about Christian, I'm sure your delusion, oops sorry - faith, is strong enough to weather any storms it might encounter as it leads you on your wayward journey. ... But make no mistake, brother, all roads lead to the abyss. Whether you can accept and deal with that or not is irrelevant.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-12-2011, 07:36 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 07:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 07:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  @GM
See! Drew is trying as well.

Yeah, still don't qualify as a project. It's just me and Drew sitting at the bar getting drunk and fucking with a Christian just for the hell of it. ... Nothing to worry about Christian, I'm sure your delusion, oops sorry - faith, is strong enough to weather any storms it might encounter as it leads you on your wayward journey. ... But make no mistake, brother, all roads lead to the abyss. Whether you can accept and deal with that or not is irrelevant.

"Bartender.... another rum and coke..." pushes the bowl of pretzels down the end of the counter.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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17-12-2011, 07:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 07:36 PM)ddrew Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 07:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 07:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  @GM
See! Drew is trying as well.

Yeah, still don't qualify as a project. It's just me and Drew sitting at the bar getting drunk and fucking with a Christian just for the hell of it. ... Nothing to worry about Christian, I'm sure your delusion, oops sorry - faith, is strong enough to weather any storms it might encounter as it leads you on your wayward journey. ... But make no mistake, brother, all roads lead to the abyss. Whether you can accept and deal with that or not is irrelevant.

"Bartender.... another rum and coke..." pushes the bowl of pretzels down the end of the counter.

Scotch on the rocks, please.

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17-12-2011, 08:24 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-12-2011 07:36 PM)ddrew Wrote:  "Bartender.... another rum and coke..." pushes the bowl of pretzels down the end of the counter.

Can't eat pretzels no more 'cause of the diabetes, but ain't gonna be no peanuts left when the bowl comes back.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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18-12-2011, 02:25 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(16-12-2011 09:40 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 07:19 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-12-2011 10:45 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Okay, I just have to ask: How do you know that your personal experience was not 100% natural, i.e. occurring entirely within your brain? Why do you believe that it came from outside your brain, and furthermore, why do you believe it was something supernatural?

Because, I resented the idea of a god. I thought it was stupid and illogical. It didn't even make sense. Yet... that changed.

So what? That answers why you believe, but it doesn't actually answer the first question. How do you know? How do you know that it was the Christian god who "spoke" to you, and not something completely within your head, yet still outside of your control/desire? If you don't know, then just say so. "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer in these circles Tongue

I know it's a long thread and such, and I really DON'T want to sound like a d-bag, but I've answered this question in great detail already. It's in the part about my conversion.

Yes, and I already read both the threads that you linked to me previously. I wouldn't be asking these questions if I thought the answer was already present in your conversion story. To me, you haven't answered my question anywhere. All I've seen is why you believe, but not how you know. Do you get the distinction that I've been trying to make here?

I'll ask again: How do you know?

Note: If it makes it easier for you, I am in complete agreement with you that we have no free will, though for entirely different reasons. I believe you when you say that you had no control over your conversion/beliefs, but I don't believe that that is evidence that something outside your brain was/is affecting you.

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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19-12-2011, 10:03 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Questions about the Atonement:

I know the what: Christ's blood sacrifice
I know the who: God's only begotten son
I know the why: to pay for our sins
When and where and how are assumed.

The question for you, Dear Theist, is who was the recipient of the atonement? Someone had to pay the price for sin, but to whom did the payment go?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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