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08-01-2014, 02:25 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC, have you been successful in your job search ? I just... haven't heard anything much for a bit. How's your brother and his family doing ? How're the kids ? ANSWER MEEEEEEE!

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-01-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-01-2014 02:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  KC, have you been successful in your job search ? I just... haven't heard anything much for a bit. How's your brother and his family doing ? How're the kids ? ANSWER MEEEEEEE!

Oh yeah. I got a job with a great company back in September. I love this job, and it's the best job I've ever had. Everything about it is awesome. Thumbsup

My bro is doing all right. He and his family moved back home and actually moved in to my deceased grandparent's house. Now, he lives next door to my parent's house and about 7 minutes away from me. It's good having him so close, but the circumstances surrounding it really suck.

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08-01-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-01-2014 02:38 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 02:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  KC, have you been successful in your job search ? I just... haven't heard anything much for a bit. How's your brother and his family doing ? How're the kids ? ANSWER MEEEEEEE!

Oh yeah. I got a job with a great company back in September. I love this job, and it's the best job I've ever had. Everything about it is awesome. Thumbsup

My bro is doing all right. He and his family moved back home and actually moved in to my deceased grandparent's house. Now, he lives next door to my parent's house and about 7 minutes away from me. It's good having him so close, but the circumstances surrounding it really suck.

Silver linings, kc, silver linings... Drinking Beverage

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08-01-2014, 06:08 PM (This post was last modified: 08-01-2014 06:32 PM by viole.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-01-2014 02:20 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No doubt that they experienced something; however, unless the conclusion is that of God, then it wasn't a regeneration. It was from something else... maybe emotional... maybe psychological.

Yes, and my muslim friend tells me that unless the conclusion is Allah, then it cannot be a true spiritual experience.

You are basically stating, in a politically correct form, that they delude themselves. And i agree with you. That they confuse emotions and psychology with the Sensus Divinitatis or a true regeneration, as you put it. And like all deluded people, they do not know that they are deluded.

So, what makes us think that such experiences, in case they hit us, are not also induced by emotions or psychology? In other words, how do we know that we are not deluding ourselves, too?

To watch this from a different point of view: why do we observe a statistical imbalance between the quality of such experiences? For instance, in Saudi Arabia these experiences are mostly psychological/emotional delusions whereas in Alabama they are mostly real regenerations coming from God.

Is emotionally driven delusion more probable in some parts of the world and not others?

Quote:And, I'm not going to be naive enough to think that this hasn't happened to me (as I'm not omniscient), but my feelings are strong enough on the subject to provide me with the faith I need.

Now you skip from objective encounters with the divine (via true regenerations) to the faith you need. But why do people need faith?

And isn't that maybe possible that this "need", which might be very widespread in humanity, could play a role in interpreting emotional experiences as true regenerations or encounters with the divine?

In other words: could I experience a true regeneration if I did not need faith?

Ciao

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09-01-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-01-2014 06:08 PM)viole Wrote:  Yes, and my muslim friend tells me that unless the conclusion is Allah, then it cannot be a true spiritual experience.

You are basically stating, in a politically correct form, that they delude themselves. And i agree with you. That they confuse emotions and psychology with the Sensus Divinitatis or a true regeneration, as you put it. And like all deluded people, they do not know that they are deluded.

So, what makes us think that such experiences, in case they hit us, are not also induced by emotions or psychology? In other words, how do we know that we are not deluding ourselves, too?

To watch this from a different point of view: why do we observe a statistical imbalance between the quality of such experiences? For instance, in Saudi Arabia these experiences are mostly psychological/emotional delusions whereas in Alabama they are mostly real regenerations coming from God.

Is emotionally driven delusion more probable in some parts of the world and not others?

You've basically restated everything I just said. And yes, it is more probable is certain parts of the world.

Quote:Now you skip from objective encounters with the divine (via true regenerations) to the faith you need. But why do people need faith?

And isn't that maybe possible that this "need", which might be very widespread in humanity, could play a role in interpreting emotional experiences as true regenerations or encounters with the divine?

In other words: could I experience a true regeneration if I did not need faith?

Ciao

- viole

Faith is what fills the gaps for things that we cannot know for certain. No, without faith, you cannot have a regeneration. This is theological. Scripture states that faith is a gift from God to His beloved.

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09-01-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I have a hypothetical question: Suppose you had a crisis of theology. For example, you realized that the bible was not in fact referring to certain people as elect but rather, say, referring to Israel as being elect in order to bring light to the world. Or that those particular passages were found to be forgeries or hinging on words that did not translate well into English. Totally hypothetical, of course, as it's been a while since I've delved into theology. Point being, how would you reframe for you experience in light of evidence that unconditional election is not supported in the bible?
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09-01-2014, 08:59 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-01-2014 08:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 06:08 PM)viole Wrote:  Yes, and my muslim friend tells me that unless the conclusion is Allah, then it cannot be a true spiritual experience.

You are basically stating, in a politically correct form, that they delude themselves. And i agree with you. That they confuse emotions and psychology with the Sensus Divinitatis or a true regeneration, as you put it. And like all deluded people, they do not know that they are deluded.

So, what makes us think that such experiences, in case they hit us, are not also induced by emotions or psychology? In other words, how do we know that we are not deluding ourselves, too?

To watch this from a different point of view: why do we observe a statistical imbalance between the quality of such experiences? For instance, in Saudi Arabia these experiences are mostly psychological/emotional delusions whereas in Alabama they are mostly real regenerations coming from God.

Is emotionally driven delusion more probable in some parts of the world and not others?

You've basically restated everything I just said. And yes, it is more probable is certain parts of the world.

Quote:Now you skip from objective encounters with the divine (via true regenerations) to the faith you need. But why do people need faith?

And isn't that maybe possible that this "need", which might be very widespread in humanity, could play a role in interpreting emotional experiences as true regenerations or encounters with the divine?

In other words: could I experience a true regeneration if I did not need faith?

Ciao

- viole

Faith is what fills the gaps for things that we cannot know for certain. No, without faith, you cannot have a regeneration. This is theological. Scripture states that faith is a gift from God to His beloved.

Are you sure it's a gift? Not just another mechanism, a curse in your brain which hides from you, possibly from all of us in one way or another the risks, thoughts and possibilities we subconsciously don't dare to face?
If that was the case, how would you react?

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09-01-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-01-2014 08:56 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I have a hypothetical question: Suppose you had a crisis of theology. For example, you realized that the bible was not in fact referring to certain people as elect but rather, say, referring to Israel as being elect in order to bring light to the world. Or that those particular passages were found to be forgeries or hinging on words that did not translate well into English. Totally hypothetical, of course, as it's been a while since I've delved into theology. Point being, how would you reframe for you experience in light of evidence that unconditional election is not supported in the bible?

I've reframed my theology quite a bit in light of certain things I've learned from history as well as better interpretations of scripture.

This wouldn't be an issue for me.

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09-01-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-01-2014 08:59 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Are you sure it's a gift? Not just another mechanism, a curse in your brain which hides from you, possibly from all of us in one way or another the risks, thoughts and possibilities we subconsciously don't dare to face?
If that was the case, how would you react?

Well, no, I'm not sure. I'm not sure of anything. That's impossible for me. But, scriptures answers the question as to "why" I believe in something that can't be proved empirically and why others don't accept it.

As for the latter, I don't think there is anything that I'm afraid to face. I'm stalwart and jaded towards whatever life can throw at me, whether it be physical, emotional, spiritual, or psychological.

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09-01-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Are humans, for the lack of a better term, "hard wired" to believe or reject faith based ideologies? I am going by memory and I probably should have researched more before asking the question, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Thought I saw some science on the brain out there attempting to zero in on what is different between believers and non believers. Could it be the emotional parts of the brain involved?

I know it is not clear cut by any means as people will go back and forth with spiritual views, but I know I am hard wired in a way that never has and never will allow me to turn to faith for answers. And I am in no way suggesting there is anything wrong with anyones brains, just is interesting when we explore the brain and link the findings to a behavior or tendancy.

Any thoughts?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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