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17-01-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 07:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 04:14 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  I would have missed this were it not for Jaxx quoting it.

Outstanding post, Kingschosen.
I'll keep this as brief as I can.

I became a believer of the "fundamentalist" type around the same time that Al Gore invented his amazing internet.
I would launch my ignorant self righteous self at all comers on IRC, claiming I could prove god, blah blah blah.
One day, an atheist asked me, "What is so unreasonable about wanting tangible evidence?" My stupid funny ego must have been napping at the time because I heard the sincerity in the question.
(I'm gonna skip a lot of details here so as not to seem like a hijacker)
Anyway, I spent countless hours with my pastor in discussion and eventually found myself being more and more repulsed by the stance of not only my own denomination, but all others as well.
I was finally asked to leave my church and was even offered an exorcism as a parting gift. I told them to shove it and didn't look back.
As I was on the cusp to abandoning my faith, I had an experience that gave me pause, which I will not relate here, as it will have no meaning for the non-believer and will only muddy my point. Suffice it to say, I was launched in a direction that brought me to a far better place of understanding and removed ALL condemnation from my faith, while not only increasing that faith but also an understanding that most of our brethren cannot comprehend.
The result being, I can come into a forum such as this and be unassailable in my beliefs, that is. The "worst" that a nonbeliever can honestly declare to me is, " I don't believe you." Since it is my understanding that the nonbeliever is supposed to be just as they are.

For years now, my yardstick for validating my belief has been how my fellow believers loath me. I don't brag of this. I find it unfortunate, but I do understand why they are this way.

As you have found, it is not the nonbeliever who is our adversary.
As you are currently finding, it is our fellow believers who are.

It's been over a decade since I've come across a believer whom I would consider a peer. Certainly impossible in my day to day. Even in my search on Al Gore's Amazing Internet, it's been fruitless. But every once in a great while, I come across someone like you.

So to you, unless invited otherwise, I will say only this:

Our young faith was turned to sand by the words of men. If you remain standing upon the faith you claim as you first abandon their understanding and later as they surely will abandon you, that sand will turn to rock.

That's it.

Your certainty is terrifying. Drinking Beverage

It is doubt that keeps us rational and gives us wisdom.

I think his certainty is an addiction, possibly one that has replaced the previous addiction he described to pain medication--I don't think this is uncommon, think AA. I feel that perhaps if he were to relax that certainty, it might make room for other unaddressed "demons" to enter. Lesser of two evils, maybe? Forgive me if you feel that I'm way off base here, KC. I've seen this phenomena personally many times when I was younger and associating with quite a few "users."
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17-01-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 09:02 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I think his certainty is an addiction, possibly one that has replaced the previous addiction he described to pain medication--I don't think this is uncommon, think AA. I feel that perhaps if he were to relax that certainty, it might make room for other unaddressed "demons" to enter. Lesser of two evils, maybe? Forgive me if you feel that I'm way off base here, KC. I've seen this phenomena personally many times when I was younger and associating with quite a few "users."

I'm not clear as to what you're saying. Mind rephrasing?

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17-01-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So one of the symptoms of religious addiction: Manipulating scripture or texts, feeling specially chosen, claiming to receive special messages from God

Addiction replacement: http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201283091726857509

http://christianity.about.com/od/drugand...addiction/


I'm on the go, my sis is getting married tomorrow. I'll try to dig up better, more scientific sources later.
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17-01-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 07:44 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 04:14 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  I would have missed this were it not for Jaxx quoting it.

Outstanding post, Kingschosen.
I'll keep this as brief as I can.

I became a believer of the "fundamentalist" type around the same time that Al Gore invented his amazing internet.
I would launch my ignorant self righteous self at all comers on IRC, claiming I could prove god, blah blah blah.
One day, an atheist asked me, "What is so unreasonable about wanting tangible evidence?" My stupid funny ego must have been napping at the time because I heard the sincerity in the question.
(I'm gonna skip a lot of details here so as not to seem like a hijacker)
Anyway, I spent countless hours with my pastor in discussion and eventually found myself being more and more repulsed by the stance of not only my own denomination, but all others as well.
I was finally asked to leave my church and was even offered an exorcism as a parting gift. I told them to shove it and didn't look back.
As I was on the cusp to abandoning my faith, I had an experience that gave me pause, which I will not relate here, as it will have no meaning for the non-believer and will only muddy my point. Suffice it to say, I was launched in a direction that brought me to a far better place of understanding and removed ALL condemnation from my faith, while not only increasing that faith but also an understanding that most of our brethren cannot comprehend.
The result being, I can come into a forum such as this and be unassailable in my beliefs, that is. The "worst" that a nonbeliever can honestly declare to me is, " I don't believe you." Since it is my understanding that the nonbeliever is supposed to be just as they are.

For years now, my yardstick for validating my belief has been how my fellow believers loath me. I don't brag of this. I find it unfortunate, but I do understand why they are this way.

As you have found, it is not the nonbeliever who is our adversary.
As you are currently finding, it is our fellow believers who are.

It's been over a decade since I've come across a believer whom I would consider a peer. Certainly impossible in my day to day. Even in my search on Al Gore's Amazing Internet, it's been fruitless. But every once in a great while, I come across someone like you.

So to you, unless invited otherwise, I will say only this:

Our young faith was turned to sand by the words of men. If you remain standing upon the faith you claim as you first abandon their understanding and later as they surely will abandon you, that sand will turn to rock.

That's it.

Thank you.

That was an amazing post.

I'm glad I found a Christian contemporary that I can relate to.

And, you're right... my yardstick has been how much the mainstreamers dislike me.

Great, as if being a crazy calvinist wasn't bad enough, now he's a hipster.

I am losing confidence in the current establishment.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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17-01-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 10:00 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 07:44 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Thank you.

That was an amazing post.

I'm glad I found a Christian contemporary that I can relate to.

And, you're right... my yardstick has been how much the mainstreamers dislike me.

Great, as if being a crazy calvinist wasn't bad enough, now he's a hipster.

I am losing confidence in the current establishment.



Playing tennis with the wall again?
You know how that goes every time.


buwwwaaahaaaa

(hug)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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17-01-2014, 11:29 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 06:04 AM)morondog Wrote:  Kestrel, do you think that it is a good thing for someone to be a believer if they do not share your understanding of faith ?
Yes. Since they, like me, have no choice in the matter.

continue Wrote:...i.e. are those other fellow believers still onto something good, do you think there is truth in what they believe, or has the *content* of your faith changed from fundamentalist Christianity ?
The difference between they and I is understanding of our shared belief.
I feel that most believers are egocentric in their understanding. To me this is evidenced by their actions and in most cases their spectacular "failures" especially in this type of environment. (alla currently getting her ass handed to her comes to mind.)
Nevertheless I still consider them fellow believers. Most of them consider me da debbil. That's how it goes.
In a very real sense, I consider myself far more fundamental than they believe themselves to be.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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17-01-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 11:29 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  In a very real sense, I consider myself far more fundamental than they believe themselves to be.

I know exactly what you mean... cause, y'know... we follow the Bible and stuff and don't twist verses to suit preconceived indoctrinations.

That's more fundamental. Thumbsup

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17-01-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 09:54 AM)jaxx Wrote:  So one of the symptoms of religious addiction: Manipulating scripture or texts, feeling specially chosen, claiming to receive special messages from God

Addiction replacement: http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201283091726857509

http://christianity.about.com/od/drugand...addiction/


I'm on the go, my sis is getting married tomorrow. I'll try to dig up better, more scientific sources later.

k

Interesting thought, though. I'll let it marinate for a bit.

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17-01-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-01-2014 10:00 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Great, as if being a crazy calvinist wasn't bad enough, now he's a hipster.

I am losing confidence in the current establishment.

Pffft, I'm no hipster.

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17-01-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I just swing through the pages of this thread every once in awhile to check on my friend, KC. Who is probably one of the ONLY theists on the planet that I actually respect.

It's most likely his signature line that won me over.

Evil_monster


(in all seriousness Calvinism confuses me but I read every word you say KC)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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