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28-03-2014, 12:18 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(28-03-2014 12:14 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 11:47 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Assuming that I am getting the gist of your question... KC's heaven works in a way a little different than usual.

KC and his other Calvinists bretheren believe that only the 'elect' go to heaven. That doesn't necessarily mean only Calvinists. As KC once explained, being 'elect' isn't faith-dependant. You can be an atheist and an 'elect'. Elect status is more of something that god just decided to pull out of his all-powerful arse and randomly distributed than a reward for having the 'right' faith.
If I remember correctly, he has admitted several times that he could well be wrong about his elect status, or that of his wife and kid(s?), but he's still going to believe he is.
Oh that's random.

I made quite an assumption.

It seems to me to be irrelevant whether people believe they are the "elect" or not. It's just more of a wait and see thing, like a person believing they have the winning lotto ticket.

Pretty much. At least, that's the way I understand it.

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28-03-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
What in your view is the most compelling argument for the existence of God?
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28-03-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-03-2014 11:38 AM)Stevil Wrote:  The Son has a purpose or "we" have a purpose?
Who is his "elect" is that us or his son?

Are you a father KC?
I am and I would be disappointed if my children felt it their purpose to praise me.
I love my kids, I want them to become independent and live a fulfilling live (however they see fulfilling to be). That's what love is, its wanting the best for them rather than seeing their lives as being for the sole purpose of praising yourself.

I am, and I feel the same way that you do. But, I'm also not O3. Being O3, God can justify any demand there is on His part.

Moreover, like morals, we define love based on our understanding and our social standards. Even in humanity, there are those that would define love very differently than you.

For God... He is showing His love to His elect by granting them the greatest thing that anyone could receive - being the presence of an O3 being. Praising Him is a cause and effect of this situation.

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28-03-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-03-2014 02:35 PM)Stevil Wrote:  KC - Are you afraid that if you mentally explore the possibility that god doesn't exist that you might then loose your faith, stop believing and then lose your place in heaven?

(27-03-2014 02:56 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I don't think that would be a concern for KC. Consider

To KC, everything has been pre-arranged by the paradoxical god; conveniently enough, he believes himself to be 'elect', as in prior to even the beginning of time itself, gawd chose KC for heaven. If Future KC stops believing, I suspect that wont mean much to Now KC 'cause he can be 'reasonably' assured that he'd still have his place in ad gods throne praising him endlessly, due to the whole predestination thing.

Yeah, FT summed it up pretty well.

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28-03-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-03-2014 03:56 PM)natachan Wrote:  Do Calvinists make a big deal out of confession, redemption, and contrition?

Confession - not like the Catholics. We do being in confessing your sins to God... not that He doesn't know, but it's more of an acknowledging your mistake.

Redemption - kinda... we do focus on regeneration and how it can happen to anyone at any time. It doesn't matter what you believe before your regeneration; after it, God will reveal Himself to you because you are elect.

Contrition - again... kinda... this goes along with confession in a sense. But, for me, I also don't dwell on my mistakes. While I do have remorse, I understand that God planned those mistakes in my life and that I had no choice but to commit them. With that, I learn things about life and myself and God.

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28-03-2014, 10:29 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-03-2014 04:06 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Wouldn't KC acknowledge that he might be wrong regarding his belief that he is predestined to be in heaven?
That if he lost his belief in god that this loss of belief was predestined (known by god, but not known by KC) and thus his not being in heaven was also predestined.
I'm sure KC accepts that people are not perfect and are prone to being wrong.

Yes, I have fully acknowledged that there is a chance I am wrong.

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28-03-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-03-2014 07:20 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  Not to speak for the chosen one, but as a former Calvinist, if you stop believing and never return to faith you were never truly elect to begin with.

Yep. It is one of the few instances where No True Scotsman is valid.

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28-03-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(28-03-2014 12:14 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Oh that's random.

I made quite an assumption.

It seems to me to be irrelevant whether people believe they are the "elect" or not. It's just more of a wait and see thing, like a person believing they have the winning lotto ticket.

Well... not exactly.

People may be elect and not understand the concept, but they understand salvation and accept Christ. They just don't understand that the reason they accept Christ is because they are elect.

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28-03-2014, 10:34 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(28-03-2014 10:01 AM)mknight Wrote:  What in your view is the most compelling argument for the existence of God?

I don't have one as God cannot be proved or disproved via empirical evidence.

If you're willing to count anecdotal evidence, then I would say my regeneration experience.

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28-03-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(28-03-2014 10:30 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 07:20 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  Not to speak for the chosen one, but as a former Calvinist, if you stop believing and never return to faith you were never truly elect to begin with.

Yep. It is one of the few instances where No True Scotsman is valid.

Is it really. Facepalm

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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