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15-10-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 08:22 AM)Rik Wrote:  Do you believe that God commanded the Israelites to commit genocide?

Yes

Quote:Do you believe that command is justified or moral?

See my above post.

That was very clear, even honest. That makes God a monster by human standards.

It's a very good thing that there is no reason to believe that God exists. Thumbsup

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15-10-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 08:22 AM)Rik Wrote:  Do you believe that God commanded the Israelites to commit genocide?

Yes

Quote:Do you believe that command is justified or moral?

See my above post.

OK, why do you believe that God exists? Or any God?
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15-10-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 08:33 AM)Rik Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes


See my above post.

OK, why do you believe that God exists? Or any God?

Oh, I see - you're a Calvinist. Never mind.
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15-10-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 08:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  On top of that, I also accept that God is omniscient and omnipotent; therefore, He is autonomous - His morality is His own and He can only be judged by Himself.

So there are at least 2 sets of morals, one for us and one for god?

He supposedly later commanded us not to kill. What if the earlier command to commit genocide was a test to see if the people would recognize that it was wrong and resist?

How can any command from god be evaluated if we can't know his motives and he has demonstrated the willingness to trick people?

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15-10-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 08:52 AM)unfogged Wrote:  So there are at least 2 sets of morals, one for us and one for god?

Somewhat. I suppose you could break it down like that; however, the set for God isn't really a "set". There is no set as His morality is His own. There is no standard or anything to compare it to.

Quote:He supposedly later commanded us not to kill. What if the earlier command to commit genocide was a test to see if the people would recognize that it was wrong and resist?

How can any command from god be evaluated if we can't know his motives and he has demonstrated the willingness to trick people?

I'll acquiesce your question even though it's not applicable to my theology.

If you look at it from a point of view that God's actions can be judged, then yes, there isn't a safe way to evaluate the commands and intentions because they could be tainted.

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15-10-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC,
What is your basis for knowing with a high degree of confidence that the god you follow is real? I guess, to date what has solidified your belief that god is there, and and has made itself known to you personally?

I think you have stated before that your basis lies mostly on what could be called "revelation" or direct communication with god. Is this true?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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15-10-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 09:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  KC,
What is your basis for knowing with a high degree of confidence that the god you follow is real? I guess, to date what has solidified your belief that god is there, and and has made itself known to you personally?

I think you have stated before that your basis lies mostly on what could be called "revelation" or direct communication with god. Is this true?

Yes.

A completely anecdotal experience.

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15-10-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-10-2014 08:54 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 08:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, it's cool. I didn't even think of it like that. I just wanted to give you a satisfactory answer.

Anyway, I'm not going to deny that portions of the NT could have been written has propaganda (especially due to the popular "Paulinity" theory), but I have no definitive 100% answer at this time.

My personal belief is that the NT is exactly what it is. Legitimate letters written to churches and people during the first century, apocalyptic writings, and recounts of Jesus' life.

However, I am in no way saying that the traditional authors attributed to those books are who actually wrote them. A lot of those are up for debate.

You need to take into account that some of the text has been conclusively shown to have been changed or even inserted.
So some of its legitimacy is questionable. It is not exactly what it purports to be.
There's also the bit about the prophecies in the biblical OT not matching the prophesies in the Torah, the prophecies were changed to fit Jesus.
At least some of the NT writers were moving the dart board.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

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15-10-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 09:54 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 09:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  KC,
What is your basis for knowing with a high degree of confidence that the god you follow is real? I guess, to date what has solidified your belief that god is there, and and has made itself known to you personally?

I think you have stated before that your basis lies mostly on what could be called "revelation" or direct communication with god. Is this true?

Yes.

A completely anecdotal experience.
To quote Thomas Paine's Age of Reason on this subject. *note Thomas Paine was a Deist and DID believe in a creator deity.*
Quote:No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication, if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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15-10-2014, 10:02 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-10-2014 09:10 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 08:52 AM)unfogged Wrote:  So there are at least 2 sets of morals, one for us and one for god?

Somewhat. I suppose you could break it down like that; however, the set for God isn't really a "set". There is no set as His morality is His own. There is no standard or anything to compare it to.

Of course there is. There are moral codes from every moral philosophy and religion.
There are even Secular moral codes.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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