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11-12-2014, 03:55 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Can one of the "elect" become one of the "non-elect" by any means or actions? Is there a way to get kicked off the E-list of god's celebrities so to speak?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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11-12-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 03:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  But in NT he's a better guy?

It's certainly milder.

Quote:I dunno. Poor choice of words I guess. The intention was to shut down the "Oh, God's good is not human good" argument. I know you're honest with us.

Not sure what you're on about... ?

Ummm, not the best analogy, but yeah...

Would you, a human, be considered immoral for breaking a dolphin moral code that their society had created?

I mean... can you really be held to a dolphin's standard of morality?

Like maybe it's considered immoral to not beat the crap out of a porpoise when they see one (they actually do this by the way). As a human, if you step in and fight off the dolphins you've committed a grievous immoral act according to dolphin morality.

Are you immoral? Are you held to dolphin morality? Or are you held to your own society's morality?

In that, since God is autonomous, He can only be held to His own moral code, right?

That's why I said apples to oranges.

Quote:Well, that kinda sucks if you don't really like God that much but you still feel you have to be a Christian and do what he says. I'd hate that.

I don't feel like I "have" to do anything. I am what I am, and it is what it is. I don't have to agree with everything as I'm not omniscient and don't know everything. I just accept that God has me feel the way I do about certain things even if they don't don't coincide with Him. And, that's all right because I ain't perfect nor do I have infinite knowledge.

Quote:I'm asking you questions 'cos you're answering and this is ask a theist thread - no holds barred as far as I'm concerned. But ja, not trying to cause shit Wink

You never do. And yep, this is a straight up thread.

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11-12-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 03:55 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Can one of the "elect" become one of the "non-elect" by any means or actions? Is there a way to get kicked off the E-list of god's celebrities so to speak?

Negatory.

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11-12-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 03:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 03:30 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  But if Christ is co-eternal, evil must also be co-eternal.

Don't follow.

Rephrase please, if you don't mind.

Hmmm, looking back, I think I know what you're saying.

But, yeah, evil has always existed because God created it (Isaiah 45:7).

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11-12-2014, 04:18 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 03:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:Also Problem of Evil.

Exists for Christ to have a purpose

Circular much?
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11-12-2014, 04:19 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2014 04:32 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 03:22 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  And yes, the sacrifice saved the elect.

Seems like the the only difference between Calvinism and Universal Reconciliation is who are The Elect? Universal reconciliation says that everyone past present and future are redeemed. Calvinism preaches only a tiny subset of us is elect while admitting they got no clue how to identify or distinguish The Elect in a crowd.

#sigh
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11-12-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 03:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 03:30 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  But if Christ is co-eternal, evil must also be co-eternal.

Don't follow.

Rephrase please, if you don't mind.

Jeremy,
You said that evil exists to give Christ a purpose. If Christ exists from eternity, then evil or the potential for evil must also exist from eternity to give Christ a purpose.

As a corollary, why would a deity require any purpose to exist?

Doc
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11-12-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 04:18 PM)Machias Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 03:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Exists for Christ to have a purpose

Circular much?

Yep.

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11-12-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 04:19 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 03:22 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  And yes, the sacrifice saved the elect.

Seems like the the only difference between Calvinism and Universal Reconciliation is who are The Elect?

Universal reconciliation proposes that we are all elect no matter what we think say or do. Calvinism proposes that no matter what The Elect says or thinks or do the Elect

I suppose so.

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11-12-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(11-12-2014 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 03:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Don't follow.

Rephrase please, if you don't mind.

Hmmm, looking back, I think I know what you're saying.

But, yeah, evil has always existed because God created it (Isaiah 45:7).

Sorry for attacking You on multiple fronts. If God created evil, then it can't ALWAYS have existed. There was a time then when there was no evil. According to you, God created evil to give Christ something to do?
Doc
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