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29-12-2011, 09:31 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-12-2011 03:48 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  This has probably been asked before but I wonder what your take is on this:

Why do theists insist on bothering with continuously pushing their dogma on atheists when we are damned no matter what we do. The reason I say this is because of this particular scripture:

but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin - Mark 3:29

Doesn't this negate any reason to start believing in such things. Why would an atheist even bother (if an atheist would even consider converting), we obviously already blaspheme the holy spirit.

OH goodie.. this again... ..let's see.....

Fuck the Holy Spirit .... the Holy Spirit can kiss my ass.... the Holy Spirit, Christ, YhWh can go fuck a goat...

Alright! I think I'm set! Hellbound for sure! Exromai save a seat for me on that one way train to hell okay. Thanks.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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29-12-2011, 09:43 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 09:52 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-12-2011 03:48 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  This has probably been asked before but I wonder what your take is on this:

Why do theists insist on bothering with continuously pushing their dogma on atheists when we are damned no matter what we do. The reason I say this is because of this particular scripture:

but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin - Mark 3:29

Doesn't this negate any reason to start believing in such things. Why would an atheist even bother (if an atheist would even consider converting), we obviously already blaspheme the holy spirit.

How did I miss this question? Sorry, Clint.

Anyway, according to my beliefs (Calvinism) once you are chosen by God you cannot be separated. If you are elect, then you cannot blaspheme; however, the non-elect can blaspheme because they aren't governed by election.

Rejection of the Holy Spirit is, of course, rejecting Christ which grants eternal damnation. According to what I believe, the elect cannot reject Christ because God's influence is too great and beyond our human power.
(27-12-2011 06:05 PM)Infidel Wrote:  Since it is written that you must see god in his creation...

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (New International Version, 2011)

... do you see a perfect and holy god when you examine "creation"?

Since I believe in evolution and multiple dimensions, God's greatness (to me) is obvious.
(29-12-2011 09:12 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  But I'm not here for or against, I'm here giving props to KC for sticking it out these 31 pages. Na-na-na^ na-na-na...

hahaha, thanks Doc Hoc. I'm here for the long haul Smile

...but, c'mon... still on the 31 page train? Get on the 7 page train.
(29-12-2011 09:21 AM)Malleus Wrote:  
Quote:2) Carnivores - It's a common misconception that only 2 of each animal were on the ark. The Bible says that 14 clean animals and 2 unclean animals of each kind were gathered on the ark. The excessive amount of clean animals could have been used as food.

Absolutely, you're right. So they brought 14 exemplars of each clean animal (7 pairs) They needed 2 for re-population and at least one of each for the sacrifice.

Clean animals, according to the bible are: sheep, cow, goat, a bunch of birds and a bunch of grasshoppers. I agree, you can feed all the feline types, all the canine types, carnivorous insects, snakes, birds, bears etc. X2 (2 individuals of each) with 11 cows, goats and sheep for at least 10 months. The lion alone would eat pigeons like I eat french fries. But yes, no problem there. Especially since all the animals would probably get off the ark kinda hungry. Too hungry for reproduction, one might argue.

Good point. I guess the only other explanation that I can conceive is that either God satiated the animals or "food" animals were brought as well.

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29-12-2011, 09:58 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 10:04 AM by Infidel.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 09:43 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Since I believe in evolution and multiple dimensions, God's greatness (to me) is obvious.

(27-12-2011 06:05 PM)Infidel Wrote:  Since it is written that you must see god in his creation...

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (New International Version, 2011)

... do you see a perfect and holy god when you examine "creation"?

It is also very obvious to me from what I see among the creatures in this world. and how viciously they struggle to survive. God could ONLY be an evil and sadistic person if he created this.

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29-12-2011, 10:02 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC,

If everything is pre destined... pre planned by God. The elect are already chosen. What's the point of prayer, the point of any hope or seeking forgiveness. Or does Christ forgive people that are elect and non-elect.. knowing the non-elect are damned anyhow. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Christ?

Sorry, but the whole elect / non-elect thing really just throws a wrench into the gears of forgiveness it seems. Difficult to wrap my mind around your logic on the whole elect / non-elect.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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29-12-2011, 10:03 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 09:58 AM)Infidel Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 09:43 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-12-2011 06:05 PM)Infidel Wrote:  Since it is written that you must see god in his creation...

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (New International Version, 2011)

... do you see a perfect and holy god when you examine "creation"?

Since I believe in evolution and multiple dimensions, God's greatness (to me) is obvious.
It is also very obvious to me from what I see among the creatures in this world. and how viciously they struggle to survive. God could ONLY be an evil and sadistic person if he created this.

Isn't that more evidence for God?

God created sin and evil. He created these for His purpose and plan. With good comes evil... it cannot be ONLY viewed as evil and sadistic. Without struggles, evolution could not thrive.

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29-12-2011, 10:11 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
You know I hear that you can't have good without evil, happy without sad, creation without destruction etc... all the flippin time. But I have a massive problem with this.
GOD made the rules. GOD decided we couldn't have happy without sad.
Otherwise if GOD is all mighty and great, why couldn't he just make a world where we only experience joy? If he could then he is sadistic. If he couldn't then he isn't the GOD everyone says he is. Either way, who is it you're worshipping?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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29-12-2011, 10:11 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:02 AM)ddrew Wrote:  KC,

If everything is pre destined... pre planned by God. The elect are already chosen. What's the point of prayer, the point of any hope or seeking forgiveness. Or does Christ forgive people that are elect and non-elect.. knowing the non-elect are damned anyhow. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Christ?

Sorry, but the whole elect / non-elect thing really just throws a wrench into the gears of forgiveness it seems. Difficult to wrap my mind around your logic on the whole elect / non-elect.

Prayer:

From here

Prayer isn't for God. Like I said, it's for us. Yes, it's to communicate with God. He let's us know His decisions and sometimes why He makes the decisions. The "stone-bread" thing is a metaphor for God's intentions. He isn't going to give us something that is going to be useless for harmful if we ask for something else. He's going to give us what we need according to His plan. The "bread" could be nothing; and, during prayer, He could reveal to us why it's nothing.

Forgiveness: I believe in unlimited limited atonement - Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for the entire world but only the elect can receive it.

Christ: Christ was given a purpose when sin and evil were created. Without sin, the Son would not have a purpose.

Does this make sense? I mean, is it clearer? If not, let me know. I'll try to explain more.

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29-12-2011, 10:12 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 10:19 AM by Infidel.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 09:58 AM)Infidel Wrote:  Isn't that more evidence for God?

God created sin and evil. He created these for His purpose and plan. With good comes evil... it cannot be ONLY viewed as evil and sadistic. Without struggles, evolution could not thrive.
Sure, if that is your idea of a perfect and holy god! I would become a Buddhist and a vegetarian if I were seeking a more civilized way than yahweh is offering here. Also, evolution and the bible are not compatable. The begats listed in the bible can only cover about 6000 years of history.

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29-12-2011, 10:16 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)lucradis Wrote:  You know I hear that you can't have good without evil, happy without sad, creation without destruction etc... all the flippin time. But I have a massive problem with this.
GOD made the rules. GOD decided we couldn't have happy without sad.
Otherwise if GOD is all mighty and great, why couldn't he just make a world where we only experience joy? If he could then he is sadistic. If he couldn't then he isn't the GOD everyone says he is. Either way, who is it you're worshipping?

Yeah, I struggled with this for a long time.

What I found is that it comes back to the Trinity. Since, God (Father, Son, HS) always existed, it was God's plan from the beginning to give the Son a purpose... this whole human fiasco. I have no idea why He did it this way. Logically, it doesn't make sense, but my logic and reason pales in comparison to an infinite being. All this bad stuff had to exist in order for the good stuff to exist.

Anyway, I worship the Christian Trinity.

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29-12-2011, 10:23 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Anyway, I worship the Christian Trinity.
One god who is three persons. That one is always clears things up for me Huh

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