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29-12-2011, 10:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:02 AM)ddrew Wrote:  KC,

If everything is pre destined... pre planned by God. The elect are already chosen. What's the point of prayer, the point of any hope or seeking forgiveness. Or does Christ forgive people that are elect and non-elect.. knowing the non-elect are damned anyhow. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Christ?

Sorry, but the whole elect / non-elect thing really just throws a wrench into the gears of forgiveness it seems. Difficult to wrap my mind around your logic on the whole elect / non-elect.

Prayer:

From here

Prayer isn't for God. Like I said, it's for us. Yes, it's to communicate with God. He let's us know His decisions and sometimes why He makes the decisions. The "stone-bread" thing is a metaphor for God's intentions. He isn't going to give us something that is going to be useless for harmful if we ask for something else. He's going to give us what we need according to His plan. The "bread" could be nothing; and, during prayer, He could reveal to us why it's nothing.

Forgiveness: I believe in unlimited limited atonement - Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for the entire world but only the elect can receive it.

Christ: Christ was given a purpose when sin and evil were created. Without sin, the Son would not have a purpose.

Does this make sense? I mean, is it clearer? If not, let me know. I'll try to explain more.

No, of course it doesn't make sense. It's bizarre, circular, and explains nothing. .

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-12-2011, 10:28 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Quote:Sure, if that is your idea of a perfect and holy god! I would become a Buddhist and a vegetarian if I were seeking a more civilized way than yahweh is offering here. Also, evolution and the bible are not compatable. The begats listed in the bible can only cover about 6000 years of history.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, since I know you're new and there is no way you've read everything I've written.

But, yes... yes it is compatible.

From my EC thread:

No... creationism is theology; not science. Science should not be read into the creation account.

If God created science, aren't His morals within science? If God is omnipotent, then aren't His morals created and sequenced into our DNA? Science is never mentioned by God because the people did not have the mental understanding and comprehensions that we do today. At that time, we had not reached the mental evolution in which God could explain how a cell evolves or why bacteria can hurt you. Instead, He focused on morality so that would continue to evolve and be passed in our DNA.

On a side note, this is the same reason God use common cosmology at the time to explain creation. It was something familiar with the people, and He was "speaking their language".


I also believe that humans were just like animals before (at whichever chosen point in evolution that God decided to uplift humanity) God imprinted His image upon His chosen creatures (Adam and Eve). Once His image was place on them they had the realization of good and evil and had an eternal soul.

The begets began at the point where God placed His image on humanity.
(29-12-2011 10:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:02 AM)ddrew Wrote:  KC,

If everything is pre destined... pre planned by God. The elect are already chosen. What's the point of prayer, the point of any hope or seeking forgiveness. Or does Christ forgive people that are elect and non-elect.. knowing the non-elect are damned anyhow. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Christ?

Sorry, but the whole elect / non-elect thing really just throws a wrench into the gears of forgiveness it seems. Difficult to wrap my mind around your logic on the whole elect / non-elect.

Prayer:

From here

Prayer isn't for God. Like I said, it's for us. Yes, it's to communicate with God. He let's us know His decisions and sometimes why He makes the decisions. The "stone-bread" thing is a metaphor for God's intentions. He isn't going to give us something that is going to be useless for harmful if we ask for something else. He's going to give us what we need according to His plan. The "bread" could be nothing; and, during prayer, He could reveal to us why it's nothing.

Forgiveness: I believe in unlimited limited atonement - Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for the entire world but only the elect can receive it.

Christ: Christ was given a purpose when sin and evil were created. Without sin, the Son would not have a purpose.

Does this make sense? I mean, is it clearer? If not, let me know. I'll try to explain more.

No, of course it doesn't make sense. It's bizarre, circular, and explains nothing. .

Hey Chas.

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29-12-2011, 10:31 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:23 AM)Infidel Wrote:  [quote='kingschosen' pid='65912' dateline='1325175385']
Anyway, I worship the Christian Trinity.
One god who is three persons. That one always clears things up for me Huh

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29-12-2011, 10:33 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:23 AM)Infidel Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Anyway, I worship the Christian Trinity.
One god who is three persons. That one is always clears things up for me Huh

From the Trinity thread.

You know... I sat and thought for a long time about how to explain the Trinity. I was trying and trying to form a coherent, clear, and accurate interpretation of what I understand, but it's actually pretty difficult to put into words.

I'm not even sure if this is going to make any sense, but here goes...

So, lucid dreaming. If you've never had a lucid dream then you will probably be even more lost at the end of this. Anyway, you know when you're having a lucid dream you KNOW that you're dreaming and you're aware that you're asleep in your bed. However, the weird part is you know that you're also in a dream.

You know that you're separate from your dream self but you're also your dream self in your dream. You know that your actions from your real self are separate from your dream self, but your dream self's actions are directly influenced by your real self.

You are self aware of both beings and you are in complete control of both beings; however, the dream self acts separate and on its own from the real self; yet you are in control of its actions even though it is self sufficient.

Lucid dreaming is one of the coolest experiences ever, and that "feeling" you have about your real self and your dream self is the only coherent explanation for the Trinity I can come up with.

Yeah... probably just lost of bunch of you... meh, sorry about that if I did.

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29-12-2011, 10:35 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So to make a looooong story short....

KingsChosen is an apologist who relies on the God of the Gaps argument and agrees with scientific theories.

Kent Miller's disciple.
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29-12-2011, 10:35 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 10:39 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
But Chas, it's not circular if there is an acceptance of an omni-all God that has an infinite will and infinite plan. This is what I believe.
(29-12-2011 10:35 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  So to make a looooong story short....

KingsChosen is an apologist who relies on the God of the Gaps argument and agrees with scientific theories.

Kent Miller's disciple.

While some of my explanations are apologetic, I am anything but an apologist. My explanations are completely consistent with my theology, and I do not rely on the God of Gaps fallacy; nor do I ever recall invoking it.

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29-12-2011, 10:39 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:35 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But Chas, it's not circular if there is an acceptance of an omni-all God that has an infinite will and infinite plan. This is what I believe.

I'm saying your whole belief system is bizarre and full of circular reasoning.
So attempts to clarify it are doomed. I don't understand why people keep asking, except it may be like throwing a ball for a dog.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-12-2011, 10:41 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:23 AM)Infidel Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Anyway, I worship the Christian Trinity.
One god who is three persons. That one is always clears things up for me Huh

From the Trinity thread.

You know... I sat and thought for a long time about how to explain the Trinity. I was trying and trying to form a coherent, clear, and accurate interpretation of what I understand, but it's actually pretty difficult to put into words.

I'm not even sure if this is going to make any sense, but here goes...

So, lucid dreaming. If you've never had a lucid dream then you will probably be even more lost at the end of this. Anyway, you know when you're having a lucid dream you KNOW that you're dreaming and you're aware that you're asleep in your bed. However, the weird part is you know that you're also in a dream.

You know that you're separate from your dream self but you're also your dream self in your dream. You know that your actions from your real self are separate from your dream self, but your dream self's actions are directly influenced by your real self.

You are self aware of both beings and you are in complete control of both beings; however, the dream self acts separate and on its own from the real self; yet you are in control of its actions even though it is self sufficient.

Lucid dreaming is one of the coolest experiences ever, and that "feeling" you have about your real self and your dream self is the only coherent explanation for the Trinity I can come up with.

Yeah... probably just lost of bunch of you... meh, sorry about that if I did.

I applaud you for your vigor in trying to explain your god, the trinity,and how god and evolution is compatable.I will not argue with you about it any longer.

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29-12-2011, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 10:45 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:35 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But Chas, it's not circular if there is an acceptance of an omni-all God that has an infinite will and infinite plan. This is what I believe.

I'm saying your whole belief system is bizarre and full of circular reasoning.
So attempts to clarify it are doomed. I don't understand why people keep asking, except it may be like throwing a ball for a dog.

I"m starting to think that as well. I'm doing a lot of repeating... of course, that could also be the fact that this thread is 320+ replies long.
(29-12-2011 10:41 AM)Infidel Wrote:  I applaud you for your vigor in trying to explain your god, the trinity,and how god and evolution is compatable.I will not argue with you about it any longer.

Nah, I'm pretty resilient. Ask away.

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29-12-2011, 10:49 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(29-12-2011 10:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:23 AM)Infidel Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Anyway, I worship the Christian Trinity.
One god who is three persons. That one is always clears things up for me Huh

From the Trinity thread.

You know... I sat and thought for a long time about how to explain the Trinity. I was trying and trying to form a coherent, clear, and accurate interpretation of what I understand, but it's actually pretty difficult to put into words.

I'm not even sure if this is going to make any sense, but here goes...

So, lucid dreaming. If you've never had a lucid dream then you will probably be even more lost at the end of this. Anyway, you know when you're having a lucid dream you KNOW that you're dreaming and you're aware that you're asleep in your bed. However, the weird part is you know that you're also in a dream.

You know that you're separate from your dream self but you're also your dream self in your dream. You know that your actions from your real self are separate from your dream self, but your dream self's actions are directly influenced by your real self.

You are self aware of both beings and you are in complete control of both beings; however, the dream self acts separate and on its own from the real self; yet you are in control of its actions even though it is self sufficient.

Lucid dreaming is one of the coolest experiences ever, and that "feeling" you have about your real self and your dream self is the only coherent explanation for the Trinity I can come up with.

Yeah... probably just lost of bunch of you... meh, sorry about that if I did.

You know, that actually made complete sense to me and you're right, it's probably due to my having had this type of dream state previously.

It is an awesome feeling the moment you realize that you're dreaming and you can basically do anything. I chose to fly.

But still, I don't see the correlation to the trinity. Best way would be to say we are all in God's dream.

You do rely on God of the Gaps by the way. If you agree with science, then the only possible way you can find existence of God is through the gaps that science has not explained yet.

Well, another alternative would be that you just flat out believe and nothing will ever change that.
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