Ask a Theist!
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26-01-2012, 06:50 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-01-2012 02:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Stupid people are stupid. No other way to say it.

I've also also challenged these goobers to explain to me how Harry Potter is evil and how their Super Christian Author C.S. Lewis' Narnia isn't.

Oh my. Dodgy
How would you possibly know whether or not goobers story is real or not?
You have no method to do so.

Why don't you give yourself and your "feeling" that same "Challenge"?
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26-01-2012, 09:12 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2012 09:16 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-01-2012 06:23 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Interesting point of view. So behavior on earth has zero to do with where you'll end up? For example an unelected baby aborted in month 8 will go directly to hell? An elected serial killer could choke on the bones of a victim and wake up in heaven? Please don't take offense, and I didn't think it was possible, but this makes religion sound even more silly to me. Is this seriously your belief system? Are you able to detect whether you are elected or not?

This is getting into deep theology... but, I will try to be very clear and concise.

The unelected are passively damned to hell from not being elected. The Bible says they (those being judged for hell) are judged by their deeds (sin) on earth. Their depravity causes them to sin, and since they are not elect, they are not redeemable.

Since the nonredeemable are judged by their sins done on earth, it is apparent that the non-elect must be capable of sinning. Sinning happens when one knows the knowledge of good and evil.

Children, babies, and the mentally handicapped are not capable of understanding the knowledge of good and evil, thus cannot be judged by their deeds on earth. This renders them elect.

In short, I believe that children, babies, and the mentally handicap that die without a knowledge of good and evil were elected by God.
(26-01-2012 06:50 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(26-01-2012 02:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Stupid people are stupid. No other way to say it.

I've also also challenged these goobers to explain to me how Harry Potter is evil and how their Super Christian Author C.S. Lewis' Narnia isn't.

Oh my. Dodgy
How would you possibly know whether or not goobers story is real or not?
You have no method to do so.

Why don't you give yourself and your "feeling" that same "Challenge"?

Good point.

But, a story that is told as fiction, is innocent. Jesus told stories to teach lessons. Granted, some stories don't always teach a positive message; however, they are not evil. They are neutral. They are for entertainment and not meant to be taken for anything other than that.

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27-01-2012, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2012 12:19 AM by morondog.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-01-2012 09:12 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  In short, I believe that children, babies, and the mentally handicap that die without a knowledge of good and evil were elected by God.

Um. Doesn't it follow then that the best thing you can do for your kid is hit him over the head with a brick? I mean, you're elect and you're going to heaven no matter what, babykins is currently elect - seems like a win win Huh He goes to heaven, you go to heaven...

In fact a really *good* man would commit frikken multiple kid murders Huh Huh All those kiddies going to heaven.

Sorry, that's completely nuts. The Catholic belief (I don't know anything about Catholicism, but this is what I believe about their beliefs) that they go to unbaptised limbo seems... well it's still off the scale crazy, but somehow *less* crazy...
Ooo ooo! And you said that the elect are chosen from the beginning of the world... so... oh wait, God knew they'd die beforehand right, so it's not like he changed his mind, he *planned* on killing kiddies.

Eish! God... not changed much since OT times hey?
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27-01-2012, 01:44 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So why shouldn't or wouldn't God have decided to either make all souls elect or to know that many would not be, and thus not create them all? If a person is created to be irredeemable and God never planned to make it possible for them to have a chance, how is that in any way fair? It seems to me that poor soul would have been set up by something bigger than himself and is now deemed for the crime of being created. [/align]
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27-01-2012, 05:32 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2012 05:36 AM by Jeff.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(26-01-2012 03:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Basically, God chose those whom He was going to save from hell before the beginning of time.

Please clarify - when you say "god chose those whom he was going to save" do you mean that he chose them by name (a specific individual) or do you mean that he chose types of people (eg non-sinners)?


Do you worship god and if so, do you worship out of fear, or out of appreciation, or both, or some other reason?
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27-01-2012, 08:53 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2012 08:59 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 12:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(26-01-2012 09:12 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  In short, I believe that children, babies, and the mentally handicap that die without a knowledge of good and evil were elected by God.

Um. Doesn't it follow then that the best thing you can do for your kid is hit him over the head with a brick? I mean, you're elect and you're going to heaven no matter what, babykins is currently elect - seems like a win win Huh He goes to heaven, you go to heaven...

In fact a really *good* man would commit frikken multiple kid murders Huh Huh All those kiddies going to heaven.

Sorry, that's completely nuts. The Catholic belief (I don't know anything about Catholicism, but this is what I believe about their beliefs) that they go to unbaptised limbo seems... well it's still off the scale crazy, but somehow *less* crazy...
Ooo ooo! And you said that the elect are chosen from the beginning of the world... so... oh wait, God knew they'd die beforehand right, so it's not like he changed his mind, he *planned* on killing kiddies.

Eish! God... not changed much since OT times hey?

God chooses who lives and dies. We are also commanded to not murder.
(27-01-2012 01:44 AM)AstralMystic Wrote:  So why shouldn't or wouldn't God have decided to either make all souls elect or to know that many would not be, and thus not create them all? If a person is created to be irredeemable and God never planned to make it possible for them to have a chance, how is that in any way fair? It seems to me that poor soul would have been set up by something bigger than himself and is now deemed for the crime of being created. [/align]

If all souls were elect then the Son could have no purpose.

It is not fair. No one said God is fair. God is just. All humanity deserves hell because of the depraved sinful nature; however, His mercy and grace granted some into heaven.
(27-01-2012 05:32 AM)Jeff Wrote:  
(26-01-2012 03:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Basically, God chose those whom He was going to save from hell before the beginning of time.

Please clarify - when you say "god chose those whom he was going to save" do you mean that he chose them by name (a specific individual) or do you mean that he chose types of people (eg non-sinners)?


Do you worship god and if so, do you worship out of fear, or out of appreciation, or both, or some other reason?

Yes, He chose specific individuals of all types... past, present, and future.

Ephesians 1:4-9
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him


I worship out of thanks and appreciation for choosing me.

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27-01-2012, 09:14 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 08:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ... We are also commanded to not murder.

Umm....but but but ... We are also commanded TO kill by your god who could just as easily do it himself.
Exodus 22:18 or thereabouts, I can't really remember.

But nah. That's not entertaining enough for the omnipresent one apparently.

Your god has no idea what he is doing.
Any one of us could set things up to run this humanity thing much better.
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27-01-2012, 09:19 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 09:14 AM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(27-01-2012 08:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ... We are also commanded to not murder.

Umm....but but but ... We are also commanded TO kill by your god who could just as easily do it himself.
Exodus 22:18 or thereabouts, I can't really remember.

But nah. That's not entertaining enough for the omnipresent one apparently.

Your god has no idea what he is doing.
Any one of us could set things up to run this humanity thing much better.

They were commanded to as a nation. It was done for the purpose of the Messianic line.

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27-01-2012, 09:25 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
To what purpose would you KC think of for god to create people just to have some go to heaven and some go to hell with no free will and an already solved end game?

I am so confused by this because I can't think up any good reason for god to make a show up for himself but then already know the ending.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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27-01-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Also... You're commanded not to murder - but if you *did* murder it would be God working through you - no freewill remember! I can't see what the problem is... other than you know, killing babies being kinda yucky - prefer to get mine from the butcher.
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