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27-01-2012, 11:44 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 10:44 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Really don't think it's merciful to allow some slaves into heaven while other slaves who were doing what they were told go to hell. I mean if god controls me then I don't have the chance to go to heaven because god is makin me sin so that I go to hell for some inane reason.
I get punished for doing what I'm told. Huh? You can't raise kids that way.

God passively chose people for damnation because they weren't chosen for salvation. Humanity exists for the Son's purpose. Sin has to exist so the purpose could be served. The result of sin is hell. Humans are sinful by nature and can only be redeemed by God. All cannot be redeemed because then there would be no sin and the Son would have no purpose.

Quote:Also how come
God can't be all powerful and allow free will? Makes no sense.
If he can't choose to allow us free will then how is he all powerful?
Maybe the reason he doesn't communicate with us openly anymore is because he wanted to see what would happen after he set things in motion.

2 Timothy 2:13
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

God cannot deny who He is. God cannot create something that defies His omnipotence. God cannot create a knot He cannot untie. God is all powerful; therefore, God cannot undermine His own power. I say "cannot" in a passive sense. It's not that God can't do it; it's because it's a paradox that is impossible. If God is truly all powerful, then it's an impossible concept for Him to create something that He can't control.

Quote:Though I still stand by the idea that if he from the bible exists, he had it written just to see his creation defy him by using tue gifts he gave us. Ie brains. He wants us to reject him using logic and reason, it angers him when we follow without using our noggins.

I see it as a way to further understand God.

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27-01-2012, 12:14 PM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2012 12:16 PM by Jeff.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 08:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, He chose specific individuals of all types... past, present, and future.

OK I want to make sure I'm getting this correctly. So god created a list a long time ago of every human who would or will ever be born, and decided in advance, person by person, name by name, which would go to heaven and which would go to hell., and that the name for those going to heaven is/are the "elect." If I don't have that right, please rephrase it in natural language, not the flowery incompro-speak.


(27-01-2012 08:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I worship out of thanks and appreciation for choosing me.

And I understand this statement to mean that you are among the elect, and are therefore going to heaven regardless of your actions. Similarly, please correct the statement if not correct as is.

And then last question - how did you find out that you are elect?


KingsChosen - one more question comes to mind - do you have children?
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27-01-2012, 12:55 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 12:14 PM)Jeff Wrote:  OK I want to make sure I'm getting this correctly. So god created a list a long time ago of every human who would or will ever be born, and decided in advance, person by person, name by name, which would go to heaven

Yes

Quote:and which would go to hell.,

No. By default, since they weren't elect, they were damned to hell. The damnation is passive.

Quote:and that the name for those going to heaven is/are the "elect."

Yes

Quote:If I don't have that right, please rephrase it in natural language, not the flowery incompro-speak.

You are correct. Sorry for being difficult to understand.

Quote:And I understand this statement to mean that you are among the elect, and are therefore going to heaven regardless of your actions. Similarly, please correct the statement if not correct as is.

Yes

Quote:And then last question - how did you find out that you are elect?

Because I believe. I could not believe in God without God acting upon me. My depraved human nature prevents it.

Quote:KingsChosen - one more question comes to mind - do you have children?

Yes. A two and a half year old son and a daughter due in May.

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27-01-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Well KC. I am unconvinced by your arguments.
This is the way I see it.




It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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27-01-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC , list the following sentences depending in what situation you prefer to be. (first the most preferable and last the least)

Living.
Be in hell.
Be in heaven.
Not existing at all.


(27-01-2012 09:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is a testament for all of you: you're accepting and seek knowledge of others that believe differently.
Yeah ok sure seek knowledge, improving my debating skills, killing my boredom and stuff but none said anything about accepting here :O
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27-01-2012, 04:19 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 04:06 PM)Reactor Wrote:  KC , list the following sentences depending in what situation you prefer to be. (first the most preferable and last the least)

Living.
Be in hell.
Be in heaven.
Not existing at all.

heaven
living
not existing
hell

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27-01-2012, 04:28 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So KC if heaven is better that living and you gonna go to heaven no matter what you do because you are elect why don't you suicide? (no offense Confused )

I also want to know another thing. Why do you answer our question, what's your motive?
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27-01-2012, 04:46 PM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2012 06:14 PM by lucradis.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
I know you you answered my question but you totally didn't. If anything you made it more confusing. But whatever, wife just got me skyrim so I'm dead to the world!

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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27-01-2012, 04:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Just a quick question...

Do you believe people can be one of the elect chosen for heaven if they're never baptized?
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27-01-2012, 10:50 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(27-01-2012 09:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Also, I would like to formally thank the TTA community for making this the second most responded to thread.

This is a testament for all of you: you're accepting and seek knowledge of others that believe differently.


This is a great thread and I must say you had a great idea to start it. I'm new here, but it seems that most here, like myself, are by nature just the type to love the complex sort of questions. Also I've got to hand it to you. It doesn't seem like you wish to actually convert or "save" anyone here. I imagine that you are simply someone who enjoys a good theological debate as much as the next person. Such discussions are of course always far more interesting when verious views are thrown in the mix! Big Grin
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