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09-12-2011, 08:39 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Chas ain't looking to tired, Preach. I'm interested in seeing where the youngster is going. Wink

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09-12-2011, 08:41 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-12-2011 08:39 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Chas ain't looking to tired, Preach. I'm interested in seeing where the youngster is going. Wink

Ya wanna up the ante to two benjies instead of 1?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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09-12-2011, 09:03 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 09:07 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
Had to "kiss" the wife goodnight.

I'm back in the ring. Back to answering questions.
(09-12-2011 04:08 PM)Organon Wrote:  I'd like to ask which god was Jesus referring to when he declared himself Son of God, given that YHWH /Yahu'Yahweh, the Hebrew god in the Bible, was an invented god, probably of the Edomites.

If Jesus was referring to Yahweh, then how could he be the son of an invented god?

Perhaps there's a god that we don't know of, so was Jesus referring to a generic god and not the god of the Hebrews?

My belief is that Jesus is the son of the Jewish God originally mentioned in the Torah. This renders your other questions moot.
(09-12-2011 06:30 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Since we've discussed before you don't believe the literal Genesis account for Creation or the Flood, where do your beliefs stand on the rest of the Old Testament stories a lot of us heard in Sunday School? (Sabbath School for me, actually).
Do you see Elijah and Elisha's miracles (Raising a boy from the dead. Making a jar of oil never run dry. Calling fire down from heaven. Elijah being taken up into heaven via Angel's Taxi Service), in the books of Kings to be allegorical or actual events?

I've honestly haven't gotten that far in my theology. I'm still a rather young Christian, but I will begin to study these. Sorry for not having an answer.

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09-12-2011, 09:25 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 09:26 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-12-2011 09:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I've honestly haven't gotten that far in my theology. I'm still a rather young Christian, but I will begin to study these. Sorry for not having an answer.

No worries. It's a pretty big book to work thru. Smile

(I left Jonah's story out because most Xians put it in the allegory category.
But the Fundies get bent out of shape by that because Jesus said something about Jonah, so that MUST make the story true. Smile
(09-12-2011 09:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Had to "kiss" the wife goodnight.

Oh, so that's why we haven't seen much of you in the masturbation thread.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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09-12-2011, 09:31 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 09:32 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-12-2011 07:05 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  1) If he so desired, would God be capable of creating a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?

2) What was the point of Jesus? From what I understand he died so our sins could be forgiven but what is the link there, what does Jesus' death have to with forgiveness? Why couldn't God just forgive people? (Kinda like how we have a forgiven thread in the casual coffeehouse and people don't have to sacrifice someone every-time they post.)

3) Why did God rectify the issue of no-one being able to get into heaven during mankind's existence, surely he foresaw the problem?

1) Ok, I really want to go into some detail on this. Just to let you know (you might not care), but Christians roll their eyes at these particular questions. Atheists and non-believers like to ask this and it's akin to a Creationists telling an Evolutionist that if we came from monkeys then how come we still have monkeys. You think it's your ace-in-the-hole, but theologically speaking it's more of a facepalm. If you really, really want to annoy Christians when you're debating them, keep asking this question in some form and make them extensively and exhaustively explain it. Oh and use semantics on them too. They'll start to rage pretty quickly (need to stop giving y'all tactics <_<).

Anyhoo, the explanation: the question is a contradiction. God cannot contradict himself. Also, the question is a fallacy of semantics (as aforementioned). God is all powerful, therefore He cannot be something that He isn't. If He creates something that defies His power then we've created a circular paradox. And while, it's lulzy for you, it isn't a fair question to the theist. If you REALLY want to annoy an Arminian Christian, use this same tactic when addressing free will and omniscience... if they counter with, "well God is all powerful, so He gave us the power to be able to choose", then ask them how an all powerful God can relinquish His power to a human? Doesn't that take away from His omnipotence.

You see, God is either all power or He isn't. Since God is all powerful He cannot create a paradox about His power. But, as I've stated, if you want to get lulzy with Christians, keep hammering this.

2) I know I've answered this question several times before, but I'll do it again. The point of Jesus was to die for us. The point of Him dying was to give Himself a purpose and an inheritance. Before the foundations of the world, the plan was to have Jesus sacrifice Himself for the elect, thus giving Himself a purpose. Why go through all of this stuff to do that? I don't know. I don't know God's will. I'm sorry if that answer isn't the answer you wanted, but I'm honest about it.

3) God chose the ones He wanted for salvation before the foundations of the world (Eph 1:4). Those that were chosen that died before Jesus had their sins already paid for by Jesus' eventual sacrifice. Why did God allow people to exist thousands of years before Jesus? Again, that's His will and plan, and I can't answer for Him no more than you can answer what my plans for tomorrow are. His ultimate plan is unknown to us.
(09-12-2011 08:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 08:09 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; however, He had a plan for the Jews. In order for His plan to be fulfilled there was a number of things that had to be done (that crazy stuff in the OT). This would pave the way for Jesus by establishing the Hebrews.

There were also things commanded of the Jews that were JUST for Jews. Like I said, this was a matter of obedience, symbolism, and purity laws.

When Jesus arrived, the knowledge of the Jewish God was established and widespread, and so, this allowed Jesus to enact God's plan.

So, in short, God remains the same, but His plan is enacted differently before Jesus.[

Sounds like a stripped-down Dispensationalism.

Except without the dispensations.

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09-12-2011, 09:33 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-12-2011 08:41 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 08:39 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Chas ain't looking to tired, Preach. I'm interested in seeing where the youngster is going. Wink

Ya wanna up the ante to two benjies instead of 1?

What now? Once the conversation turns to Benjamin Franklin, shit ain't so metaphysical, alla sudden. Doobies maybe. Wink

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09-12-2011, 09:37 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-12-2011 09:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If you really, really want to annoy Christians when you're debating them, keep asking this question in some form and make them extensively and exhaustively explain it. Oh and use semantics on them too. They'll start to rage pretty quickly (need to stop giving y'all tactics <_<).

If he so desired, would God be capable of creating a pancake he couldn't flip? And don't try to pull those word games. We can all agree on what a pancake is. And really it can be as endless as the universe if only there were enough ingredients and a big enough spatula to flip it.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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09-12-2011, 10:27 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-12-2011 06:21 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  We will be praising God for eternity.

Dude, that smells like enslavement to me, voluntary or not.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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09-12-2011, 10:29 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
The biggest question for this person is, they say 'god', and I ask, 'Which one' because honestly you have a rather large list to pick from. You say Yahweh, Muslims say Allah. Like an irrational Energizer Bunny religious nutcases just keeps going, and going, and going - in the wrong direction. Regardless of the clever word games you play, logic will never be defeated by ancient mumbo jumbo, written by questionable authors at a time when people didn't know where the sun went at night. Having a 'personal relationship' with a dead guy lies at the heart of your sick belief system. I often wonder what religion you would be if the Roman Empire did not adopt Christianity.
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09-12-2011, 10:46 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(09-12-2011 10:29 PM)Monk Wrote:  Regardless of the clever word games you play, logic will never be defeated by ancient mumbo jumbo,

Yeah, that.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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